Our 15 year old step-son is out of contorl, he has been in and out of Physchiatric Hospital since he was 5 years old, he has been diagnosed with Major Depression with Suicidal & Homicidal Ideations, ADD, ODD, Reactive Attatchment Disorder, Manipulative and just recently Conduct Disorder. He has already used the following drugs, Cocaine, Heroin, Marijuana, Crack,, he has abused Ritalin, Vicodin, Tramadol, Oxycodone, and any other prescription medications he can steal, he drinks and smokes ciggerettes. He is quick to explode, has been physically and verbally abusive to all in our familyand especially torwards me. He has finally figured out what to say and do to stay out of the hospitals and keep the Police from arresting him. We are at our wits end and are out of options, we tried to get him drug rehabilitation and he refused the treatment. He sneaks out of our home and runs the streets, and he runs away. We are desperate for help but it seems like no one will help us, the police say that unless he hurts us they can not remove him. And, when we try to Baker Act him the hospital releases him because he convinces them he is okay. Please any suggestions?????
We need help
- Thread starter phildjb
- Start date
klmno
Active Member
Welcome! I'm sorry you are going thru all this- you have sure had more than your share to deal with. Others might have better advice on this than me to offer- unfortunately, my only idea is that it's going to take him being locked up and not released until he has satisfactorily come clean and gone thru drug rehabilitation. That is still not going to be very effective if he doesn't want it to be, but it gives him a chance at least, and buys some time for him to mature a little without drug use. The only way I know of for you to make that happen, if you went that route, is to get him incarcerated for offenses related to illegal drugs- and that would mean either asking for a court hearing yourself or having him arrested every time you find illegal substances on him or in your home, or you catch him stealing them, etc. I'm sorry I can't be of more help....
smallworld
Moderator
Welcome! I'm glad you found us, but sorry you needed to.
It sounds as if your son needs to be in a long-term residential treatment program. In general, treatment programs focus either on the psychiatric issue (in your case, depression, etc) or on the medical issue (in your case, drug abuse), but you will want to focus on finding one that treats both simultaneously. The drug treatment programs typically emphasize total abstinence and will not work with someone who isn't ready to give up drugs completely. The psychiatric programs are better at understanding the concept of self-medication and will usually work with the patient on finding better coping skills so that self-medication is not necessary. When inquiring about programs, make sure you ask whether it is a dual- diagnosis program.
There is an article in a recent issue of BiPolar (BP) magazine that addresses dual- diagnosis concerns. The article can be found at this link: http://www.bphope.com/
Again, welcome.
It sounds as if your son needs to be in a long-term residential treatment program. In general, treatment programs focus either on the psychiatric issue (in your case, depression, etc) or on the medical issue (in your case, drug abuse), but you will want to focus on finding one that treats both simultaneously. The drug treatment programs typically emphasize total abstinence and will not work with someone who isn't ready to give up drugs completely. The psychiatric programs are better at understanding the concept of self-medication and will usually work with the patient on finding better coping skills so that self-medication is not necessary. When inquiring about programs, make sure you ask whether it is a dual- diagnosis program.
There is an article in a recent issue of BiPolar (BP) magazine that addresses dual- diagnosis concerns. The article can be found at this link: http://www.bphope.com/
Again, welcome.
Robinboots
New Member
No idea where you live, but in most places, with enough simple status offenses (like running awYou have to turn him in, and press charges, for every.single.infraction. ay) - and providing there is room in detention - you CAN have him picked up and in front of a judge. That takes a lot.
You have to turn him in, and press charges, for every.single.infraction. And document everything, every move he makes, everything he says/does. THAT can be presented to the judge/caseworkers/doctors, etc. You have to show the pattern, so that he canNOT keep snowing everyone.
You have to turn him in, and press charges, for every.single.infraction. And document everything, every move he makes, everything he says/does. THAT can be presented to the judge/caseworkers/doctors, etc. You have to show the pattern, so that he canNOT keep snowing everyone.
Because the issues have built over many years and now are well-established, I don't believe anything external will make him change behavior at least for more than long enough to exit whatever program. The best would be a program, or perhaps combination, that will break the physical drug addiction (relatively easy just takes a couple of months away from the drugs), get him to examine his life in a structured way, and point out tools/techniques to live more happily without drugs and the rest. That doesn't guarantee change, but does at least open eyes and point out new and better ways. In the end, it remains the individual's choice though.
There seem to be two basic routes to getting him in such a program/combination. You could do it privately at a cost easily exceeding $50,000 and likely over twice that. (His school might be persuaded to pay a portion of the cost, but that is another subject.) The alternative is involving the legal system as noted by others. The legal system may not offer the most appropriate facilities and programs, although it may be possible to exercise some choice, but it surely should have a lower financial cost to you. Also, I agree with the comments about seeking a dual-diagnosis facility.
If financing was not an issue, I know where I would suggest, and how to get him there and participating. In the end though, real change will come only when he realizes its value and pursues it.
There seem to be two basic routes to getting him in such a program/combination. You could do it privately at a cost easily exceeding $50,000 and likely over twice that. (His school might be persuaded to pay a portion of the cost, but that is another subject.) The alternative is involving the legal system as noted by others. The legal system may not offer the most appropriate facilities and programs, although it may be possible to exercise some choice, but it surely should have a lower financial cost to you. Also, I agree with the comments about seeking a dual-diagnosis facility.
If financing was not an issue, I know where I would suggest, and how to get him there and participating. In the end though, real change will come only when he realizes its value and pursues it.
You and all family members (step and natural), including extended family, must agree to a zero tolerance policy for:
Physical abuse
Stealing - prescription drugs, money, credit cards, valuables, electronics, etc.
Property Damage
Illegal Use of both illegal and prescription drugs
Fire setting
Injury to animals
Threats to hurt people or to steal or damage property
This means that you call the police and file charges against him every single time he commits one of these offenses. You need to have a clear plan for when and how you will call for help so that everyone uses the same criteria when possible. Inform step-son of the rules and the consequences for breaking the rules. Then you MUST enforce the rules, with outside help if necessary.
We have an action plan posted by the phone in plain sight. All the professionals we work with (psychiatrist, therapist, etc) have a copy of it for their files so they know what the plan is and when it will be activated.
If he threatens to hurt you then call 911 immediately. Do not wait to see if he really will hurt you. If he actually assaults you (shoving, kicking, hitting, slapping, etc) get to a safe place if possible before calling 911. When officers arrive you must agree to charge him with a crime and then insist that he be removed from the home for your safety. If necessary carry your cell phone on your person so that you can make that call immediately without having to get to the house phone. Be prepared to leave the house to make that call or to lock him out if possible. If necessary lock yourself in a bathroom.
If there are siblings, especially younger children, a plan must be in place for them to also have a safe place to go and they must know when to go there. If possible they need access to a phone to call 911.
If you have called officers out and failed to press charges in the past then you can expect they will be resistant to responding in the future. If that is the case, I suggest speaking to your area's community policing officer (if there is one) or call the police department and ask to speak to someone about the problems you are having with your son. In that conversation you need to make it clear that you are now willing to press charges against him whenever you request assistance.
You should already have taken many practical measures like locking up all financial papers, wallets, purses, valuables, prescription and non-prescription medications; installing a locking mail box that only you can access; installing a dead-bolt on your own bedroom that only you and husband have a key to and then locking your door at all times; locking up all individual cell phones at night in your room with you - do not leave them out in the house charging; changing the locks on the house so that he has a key to only one door then you can be sure that he can't get in through other doors if you have locked him out; refusing to provide cell phone, car, bus pass, allowance, computer, video games, handheld games, special clothing, movies, bike, skateboard, anything that would normally be earned by good behavior.
You should be inspecting his room and his belongings like backpacks without notice. You may want to consider removing the door to his room as a visible reminder of where the authority rests in the home and that he has to earn privacy through good behavior.
When inspecting his room and belongings, if you find drugs, drug paraphernalia, stolen items including prescription medications, illegal weapons of any kind (switch blade for example) you need to call the police immediately and turn him in. Do not remove the items or disturb them if you can avoid it. Just leave them in place and call the police.
If you have good reason to believe that any of these measures will provoke a physical attack, then you may not want or be able to do them. Or you may need to carefully choose your time. Inspection of his room and belongings can be done when he is gone. If he will know when he gets back that you've been in his room then you should be prepared for a violent response. If you found drugs, etc and reported him to the police in his absence, ask them for advice on how to handle his return home if they do not locate him first. If you found weapons, especially guns, do not stay at the house until the police have found him and told you that he is in custody.
Placement in a treatment facility for dual-diagnosed youth would be great but these are few and far between, especially if you do not live in an urban area, and as others have said private programs cost a fortune. It also requires his cooperation to some extent. He may have to spend some time in juvenile hall before you get this, and you may not get it even then. I personally would not expect him to cooperate.
If he has figured out how to work the system and feels no remorse for his actions it may be too late to help him and you must turn your efforts to protecting other family members physically, emotionally and financially. If there are younger siblings, it is vital that you get him out of your home in my humble opinion.
You probably need to consult a lawyer now about what to do if you need to legally transfer his custody to the state or his mother in order to get him out of your home. You may also want to ask about restraining orders at the same time.
Sorry to be pessimistic but in our experience, once a kid has done what you are describing and either gotten away with it or persists despite treatment and/or big consequences it is generally too late to get them to turn back. They must hit bottom and decide for themselves that they don't want to live as a drug-addict on the streets for the rest of what will be a short and painful life. He will not believe that this is what is going to happen and you cannot tell him or show him. And he may not ever get there, especially if he's gotten involved with a gang.
If step or extended family members refuse to adhere to the plan then you will have to decide how to handle that. He must not be allowed to split the family, pitting one person or group against another. I'm guessing that is a big part of how things got to where they are now. If there is agreement between the adults in the home when he is living there (for example Dad and step-mom) and extended or step family do not agree then I would inform them of the reasons for the rules, the nature of the rules and what you plan to do when he breaks the rules. If they feel that you are exaggerating or playing favorites, then I would insist that step-son goes to live with those people and not stay in your home. Visits would take place away from home in public places.
If you and Dad do not agree about the rules, calling the police and pressing charges then you are probably going to have to leave and take any younger children with you, at least temporarily. Ideally you (or others) will have pressed charges against step-son at least once before you have to leave, thus ensuring an official record of the lack of safety in the home.
If Dad is also abusive in any way (verbally, emotionally, financially, physically) then you need to call your local domestic violence hotline and ask for help tonight.
I realize it's likely to be complicated but you must find a way to set concrete limits on your step-son and enforce them. If he can just run away to Mom's when he screws up at your house then things will only get worse. In that case, he needs to live at Mom's and let her deal with the consequences of her choices. Painful as it may be, Dad may need to give up custody or take other measures to ensure that his current family is safe, assuming you have other children.
Most of the folks on the board understand the danger your step-son represents to himself and to his family. We take that danger seriously and will not poo-poo your concerns or reports of problems. Many of us have experienced these kinds of problems and know that safety of all family members is the most important priority. We know that you are likely to be isolated and to have few if any people to turn to for help or who understand what you're going through.
Step-son may have snowed everyone else well enough that you are not believed and are even accused of victimizing him. Many abusers are very clever at hiding their behavior from well-meaning people. We believe you. You are not crazy. If necessary you may need to set up cameras in the home to tape him in action. Hopefully not but you must do whatever it takes to keep yourself and any other children safe from him.
Physical abuse
Stealing - prescription drugs, money, credit cards, valuables, electronics, etc.
Property Damage
Illegal Use of both illegal and prescription drugs
Fire setting
Injury to animals
Threats to hurt people or to steal or damage property
This means that you call the police and file charges against him every single time he commits one of these offenses. You need to have a clear plan for when and how you will call for help so that everyone uses the same criteria when possible. Inform step-son of the rules and the consequences for breaking the rules. Then you MUST enforce the rules, with outside help if necessary.
We have an action plan posted by the phone in plain sight. All the professionals we work with (psychiatrist, therapist, etc) have a copy of it for their files so they know what the plan is and when it will be activated.
If he threatens to hurt you then call 911 immediately. Do not wait to see if he really will hurt you. If he actually assaults you (shoving, kicking, hitting, slapping, etc) get to a safe place if possible before calling 911. When officers arrive you must agree to charge him with a crime and then insist that he be removed from the home for your safety. If necessary carry your cell phone on your person so that you can make that call immediately without having to get to the house phone. Be prepared to leave the house to make that call or to lock him out if possible. If necessary lock yourself in a bathroom.
If there are siblings, especially younger children, a plan must be in place for them to also have a safe place to go and they must know when to go there. If possible they need access to a phone to call 911.
If you have called officers out and failed to press charges in the past then you can expect they will be resistant to responding in the future. If that is the case, I suggest speaking to your area's community policing officer (if there is one) or call the police department and ask to speak to someone about the problems you are having with your son. In that conversation you need to make it clear that you are now willing to press charges against him whenever you request assistance.
You should already have taken many practical measures like locking up all financial papers, wallets, purses, valuables, prescription and non-prescription medications; installing a locking mail box that only you can access; installing a dead-bolt on your own bedroom that only you and husband have a key to and then locking your door at all times; locking up all individual cell phones at night in your room with you - do not leave them out in the house charging; changing the locks on the house so that he has a key to only one door then you can be sure that he can't get in through other doors if you have locked him out; refusing to provide cell phone, car, bus pass, allowance, computer, video games, handheld games, special clothing, movies, bike, skateboard, anything that would normally be earned by good behavior.
You should be inspecting his room and his belongings like backpacks without notice. You may want to consider removing the door to his room as a visible reminder of where the authority rests in the home and that he has to earn privacy through good behavior.
When inspecting his room and belongings, if you find drugs, drug paraphernalia, stolen items including prescription medications, illegal weapons of any kind (switch blade for example) you need to call the police immediately and turn him in. Do not remove the items or disturb them if you can avoid it. Just leave them in place and call the police.
If you have good reason to believe that any of these measures will provoke a physical attack, then you may not want or be able to do them. Or you may need to carefully choose your time. Inspection of his room and belongings can be done when he is gone. If he will know when he gets back that you've been in his room then you should be prepared for a violent response. If you found drugs, etc and reported him to the police in his absence, ask them for advice on how to handle his return home if they do not locate him first. If you found weapons, especially guns, do not stay at the house until the police have found him and told you that he is in custody.
Placement in a treatment facility for dual-diagnosed youth would be great but these are few and far between, especially if you do not live in an urban area, and as others have said private programs cost a fortune. It also requires his cooperation to some extent. He may have to spend some time in juvenile hall before you get this, and you may not get it even then. I personally would not expect him to cooperate.
If he has figured out how to work the system and feels no remorse for his actions it may be too late to help him and you must turn your efforts to protecting other family members physically, emotionally and financially. If there are younger siblings, it is vital that you get him out of your home in my humble opinion.
You probably need to consult a lawyer now about what to do if you need to legally transfer his custody to the state or his mother in order to get him out of your home. You may also want to ask about restraining orders at the same time.
Sorry to be pessimistic but in our experience, once a kid has done what you are describing and either gotten away with it or persists despite treatment and/or big consequences it is generally too late to get them to turn back. They must hit bottom and decide for themselves that they don't want to live as a drug-addict on the streets for the rest of what will be a short and painful life. He will not believe that this is what is going to happen and you cannot tell him or show him. And he may not ever get there, especially if he's gotten involved with a gang.
If step or extended family members refuse to adhere to the plan then you will have to decide how to handle that. He must not be allowed to split the family, pitting one person or group against another. I'm guessing that is a big part of how things got to where they are now. If there is agreement between the adults in the home when he is living there (for example Dad and step-mom) and extended or step family do not agree then I would inform them of the reasons for the rules, the nature of the rules and what you plan to do when he breaks the rules. If they feel that you are exaggerating or playing favorites, then I would insist that step-son goes to live with those people and not stay in your home. Visits would take place away from home in public places.
If you and Dad do not agree about the rules, calling the police and pressing charges then you are probably going to have to leave and take any younger children with you, at least temporarily. Ideally you (or others) will have pressed charges against step-son at least once before you have to leave, thus ensuring an official record of the lack of safety in the home.
If Dad is also abusive in any way (verbally, emotionally, financially, physically) then you need to call your local domestic violence hotline and ask for help tonight.
I realize it's likely to be complicated but you must find a way to set concrete limits on your step-son and enforce them. If he can just run away to Mom's when he screws up at your house then things will only get worse. In that case, he needs to live at Mom's and let her deal with the consequences of her choices. Painful as it may be, Dad may need to give up custody or take other measures to ensure that his current family is safe, assuming you have other children.
Most of the folks on the board understand the danger your step-son represents to himself and to his family. We take that danger seriously and will not poo-poo your concerns or reports of problems. Many of us have experienced these kinds of problems and know that safety of all family members is the most important priority. We know that you are likely to be isolated and to have few if any people to turn to for help or who understand what you're going through.
Step-son may have snowed everyone else well enough that you are not believed and are even accused of victimizing him. Many abusers are very clever at hiding their behavior from well-meaning people. We believe you. You are not crazy. If necessary you may need to set up cameras in the home to tape him in action. Hopefully not but you must do whatever it takes to keep yourself and any other children safe from him.
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recovering doormat
Lapsed CDer
I can't think of anything to ad to the previous post. You're mind is probably reeling from all this info. It's a lot to digest, especially if you are already emotionally,mentally adn physically exhausted from the effort of trying to contain your step-son.
I will just add, from my own experience with my son, that if there are other minor children in your household, you will be held responsible for their safety. I have come close to losing my 13 yr old daughter in the past because I didn't do an adequate job of keeping her safe from my son, and he didn't do half the stuff your stepson is doing. It sounds cold and maybe draconian, but you have to treat him like a threat to your safety and have a plan and most importantly STICK TO IT.
My difficult child's are experts at pitting adults against each other. If you can't get total agreement and cooperation with your spouse, the biological parent, then get yourself and your other kids out.
I was going to suggest that you look into stepson enrolled in a juvenile court supervision/probation program, where he signs a contract that he will obey house rules, go to school, go for substance abuse counseling, therapy, etc, and then if he violate a rule, you call his probation officer and they are the bad guy who pulls him in front of a judge or sends him to juvenile detention. However, as the dad who responded below acknowledged, if he doesn't want to change, you aren't going to get much cooperation with the probation plan. Then it depends on how seriously the juv probation people take their cases. My son was able to get around most of the things he was supposed to do because he's a middle-class kid with educated parents, and they don't really want to be bother with "trifling" cases like ours: they have hardcore kids with gang affiliations, neglectful or abusive parents, poverty, drug addiction, etc.
The only thing you can't do is nothing. Do what you have to do to protect any younger kids and yourself.
I will just add, from my own experience with my son, that if there are other minor children in your household, you will be held responsible for their safety. I have come close to losing my 13 yr old daughter in the past because I didn't do an adequate job of keeping her safe from my son, and he didn't do half the stuff your stepson is doing. It sounds cold and maybe draconian, but you have to treat him like a threat to your safety and have a plan and most importantly STICK TO IT.
My difficult child's are experts at pitting adults against each other. If you can't get total agreement and cooperation with your spouse, the biological parent, then get yourself and your other kids out.
I was going to suggest that you look into stepson enrolled in a juvenile court supervision/probation program, where he signs a contract that he will obey house rules, go to school, go for substance abuse counseling, therapy, etc, and then if he violate a rule, you call his probation officer and they are the bad guy who pulls him in front of a judge or sends him to juvenile detention. However, as the dad who responded below acknowledged, if he doesn't want to change, you aren't going to get much cooperation with the probation plan. Then it depends on how seriously the juv probation people take their cases. My son was able to get around most of the things he was supposed to do because he's a middle-class kid with educated parents, and they don't really want to be bother with "trifling" cases like ours: they have hardcore kids with gang affiliations, neglectful or abusive parents, poverty, drug addiction, etc.
The only thing you can't do is nothing. Do what you have to do to protect any younger kids and yourself.
First, I would like to thank everyone for their advice. Then, I would like to explain everything just a little bit better.
I met my husband when his son was seven, and when he told me about him I just thought that this poor child just need love and stability. He had been removed from his mother by my husband when he was just three months old, because of her own drug and alcohol abuse. After leaving he found out that she had been hiding her family's history of schizophrenia from him. Six months after I met my husband, his ex-wife died from a cocaine overdose. When we lived in Indiana the law was simple, if he made threats he was arrested. As we have found out here in Florida, if he is just out of control (i.e.. hitting walls, hitting doors, throwing things, breaking things, cursing us and calling us bad names, saying he is going to hit us, acting like he is going to hit us, and running away) they do not remove him from the house. And, they tell us that we can't refuse him entrance into the house because he is a minor and lives there and his belongings are there. The officer's have sympathized with us and each time a report is wrote up and we are given a case number. Twice, he has been Baker Acted by the Police, but twice the hospital has let him go because they say he is not a threat to himself or others, but this last time they diagnosed him with Conduct Disorder.
I am trying to find out how to go about getting a hearing in front of the Judge, which is what one of the Police Officer's suggested to me, but I am the only one working and money is very tight. My husband is trying to find a job, but it is very difficult because of the back injury he suffered several years ago that left him with nerve damage and leg weakness.
My husband and I did separate because of this issue for about a month, but the other children and we were very miserable. We are in agreement that we have had enough of his behavior and that we cannot tolerate it anymore. But, my husband's heart breaks at the thought of signing away custody of his only biological son. I understand his position on this, but I also understand that this is child is destroying our family.
They only other family member in our entirely large family that is willing to have him live with her is his grandmother, who has been declared legally unfit to care for a child by the State of Florida.
Sometimes it seems to me that we are all alone and that we must suffer the indulgences of this child until he is 18, at which time we will be freed from this emotional prison we are being held captive in.
Also, I am still trying to learn what all the abbreviations ya'll use stand for.. Can someone help me with those too?
I met my husband when his son was seven, and when he told me about him I just thought that this poor child just need love and stability. He had been removed from his mother by my husband when he was just three months old, because of her own drug and alcohol abuse. After leaving he found out that she had been hiding her family's history of schizophrenia from him. Six months after I met my husband, his ex-wife died from a cocaine overdose. When we lived in Indiana the law was simple, if he made threats he was arrested. As we have found out here in Florida, if he is just out of control (i.e.. hitting walls, hitting doors, throwing things, breaking things, cursing us and calling us bad names, saying he is going to hit us, acting like he is going to hit us, and running away) they do not remove him from the house. And, they tell us that we can't refuse him entrance into the house because he is a minor and lives there and his belongings are there. The officer's have sympathized with us and each time a report is wrote up and we are given a case number. Twice, he has been Baker Acted by the Police, but twice the hospital has let him go because they say he is not a threat to himself or others, but this last time they diagnosed him with Conduct Disorder.
I am trying to find out how to go about getting a hearing in front of the Judge, which is what one of the Police Officer's suggested to me, but I am the only one working and money is very tight. My husband is trying to find a job, but it is very difficult because of the back injury he suffered several years ago that left him with nerve damage and leg weakness.
My husband and I did separate because of this issue for about a month, but the other children and we were very miserable. We are in agreement that we have had enough of his behavior and that we cannot tolerate it anymore. But, my husband's heart breaks at the thought of signing away custody of his only biological son. I understand his position on this, but I also understand that this is child is destroying our family.
They only other family member in our entirely large family that is willing to have him live with her is his grandmother, who has been declared legally unfit to care for a child by the State of Florida.
Sometimes it seems to me that we are all alone and that we must suffer the indulgences of this child until he is 18, at which time we will be freed from this emotional prison we are being held captive in.
Also, I am still trying to learn what all the abbreviations ya'll use stand for.. Can someone help me with those too?
They won't prosecute him for illegal drugs? They won't prosecute him for stealing - even for stealing prescription medications? Who is he stealing from?
What's happening at school? Is he chronic truant?
I don't care what the cops say, assault is assault. If he is physically attacking ANYONE in the house and you press charges then they should have the authority to remove him at least until he goes before a judge. If the cops on scene won't do it, insist on speaking to the sergeant. If that doesn't work then the lieutenant.
Dad has my sympathy but I would hope that you all got this kind of advice (i.e. setting and keeping very clear limits, calling the police, pressing charges) several times over the last few years from everyone from cops to therapists. If you didn't then I guess I understand the shock. If you did then it's too bad you weren't able to deal with him effectively then cause it's probably way too late now. Either way Dad has to overcome his grief and deal with reality. It is only going to get uglier and more dangerous, not the other way around.
As for separating - I get that you were miserable.
Do you get that you are putting everyone in danger?
I mean as in someone being dead or seriously injured kind of danger?
Do you get that your other children could be taken away from both of you?
What happens if he comes home high with some friends who are also high and decide to cook something in a metal pan in the microwave? Or he decides you are hiding money or jewelry from him that he "should" have and hurts you or the other kids in pursuit of this hidden treasure? Decides to drive the family car while drunk or high and kills someone?
What will Dad do then?
You still need to leave or get step-son out of the home.
Only practical suggestion I have for you if you have already done all the things I listed in my first post is to change all the locks the next time he leaves. Do NOT give him a key. He can come and go when you are there and not otherwise until you work out the details of how to deal with him. I personally would not feel safe sleeping under the same roof with him.
If you haven't done the stuff I listed in my first post then you have seen NOTHING yet. Once he figures it out, he will devastate you financially using credit cards, bank accounts, anything he can get his hands on. Please do not wait for that to happen. He will bankrupt you and think nothing of it. Some people have had to legally divorce in order to limit the financial damage an out-of-control sociopath child can do to one parent so the other has a chance of holding on to housing, job, car and other kids until after the difficult child is of legal age when they can resume life as a family.
Oh yeah, put a block on your phone for all long distance and billable calls like 900 numbers. Require a code to dial long distance and do not give it to him.
As long as you let him run the show, he WILL run the show.
If he was being arrested in Indiana why wasn't he incarcerated? Does he have a record for assault there? If he has a criminal record from another state that may help you with the local cops.
I wish I thought that getting mental health treatment would work but I honestly don't think it will since he will not cooperate. Some of his behavior may be self-medication but that does not excuse it or make him less responsible for his actions. And, frankly, once they have discovered that they can self-medicate with something that makes them feel good, especially crystal meth which has a huge sexual kick that lasts for days, pretty much all you can do, in our experience, is stand back and limit the damage they can do to others any way you can.
If he hasn't gotten into crystal meth to your knowledge but has done heroine then I think you can expect him to at least try crystal meth soon. It is HIGHLY addictive and if he gets into that (very likely in my opinion) it will steamroller you. Our son was having physical fights with trashcans on the street because he was so psychotic from crystal meth that he thought they were people who wouldn't talk to him so he attacked them. This can happen with anything like heroine and crack but crystal meth is particularly known for provoking aggressive psychosis. A person high on crystal meth can kill or maim and not even know he is doing it.
You are playing with fire if you do not find a way to control his behavior. Your other children have no one else to turn to to protect them and that is where your priorities must lie.
I hope I am wrong. Others may have different experiences to share. I'm just speaking from ours.
What's happening at school? Is he chronic truant?
I don't care what the cops say, assault is assault. If he is physically attacking ANYONE in the house and you press charges then they should have the authority to remove him at least until he goes before a judge. If the cops on scene won't do it, insist on speaking to the sergeant. If that doesn't work then the lieutenant.
Dad has my sympathy but I would hope that you all got this kind of advice (i.e. setting and keeping very clear limits, calling the police, pressing charges) several times over the last few years from everyone from cops to therapists. If you didn't then I guess I understand the shock. If you did then it's too bad you weren't able to deal with him effectively then cause it's probably way too late now. Either way Dad has to overcome his grief and deal with reality. It is only going to get uglier and more dangerous, not the other way around.
As for separating - I get that you were miserable.
Do you get that you are putting everyone in danger?
I mean as in someone being dead or seriously injured kind of danger?
Do you get that your other children could be taken away from both of you?
What happens if he comes home high with some friends who are also high and decide to cook something in a metal pan in the microwave? Or he decides you are hiding money or jewelry from him that he "should" have and hurts you or the other kids in pursuit of this hidden treasure? Decides to drive the family car while drunk or high and kills someone?
What will Dad do then?
You still need to leave or get step-son out of the home.
Only practical suggestion I have for you if you have already done all the things I listed in my first post is to change all the locks the next time he leaves. Do NOT give him a key. He can come and go when you are there and not otherwise until you work out the details of how to deal with him. I personally would not feel safe sleeping under the same roof with him.
If you haven't done the stuff I listed in my first post then you have seen NOTHING yet. Once he figures it out, he will devastate you financially using credit cards, bank accounts, anything he can get his hands on. Please do not wait for that to happen. He will bankrupt you and think nothing of it. Some people have had to legally divorce in order to limit the financial damage an out-of-control sociopath child can do to one parent so the other has a chance of holding on to housing, job, car and other kids until after the difficult child is of legal age when they can resume life as a family.
Oh yeah, put a block on your phone for all long distance and billable calls like 900 numbers. Require a code to dial long distance and do not give it to him.
As long as you let him run the show, he WILL run the show.
If he was being arrested in Indiana why wasn't he incarcerated? Does he have a record for assault there? If he has a criminal record from another state that may help you with the local cops.
I wish I thought that getting mental health treatment would work but I honestly don't think it will since he will not cooperate. Some of his behavior may be self-medication but that does not excuse it or make him less responsible for his actions. And, frankly, once they have discovered that they can self-medicate with something that makes them feel good, especially crystal meth which has a huge sexual kick that lasts for days, pretty much all you can do, in our experience, is stand back and limit the damage they can do to others any way you can.
If he hasn't gotten into crystal meth to your knowledge but has done heroine then I think you can expect him to at least try crystal meth soon. It is HIGHLY addictive and if he gets into that (very likely in my opinion) it will steamroller you. Our son was having physical fights with trashcans on the street because he was so psychotic from crystal meth that he thought they were people who wouldn't talk to him so he attacked them. This can happen with anything like heroine and crack but crystal meth is particularly known for provoking aggressive psychosis. A person high on crystal meth can kill or maim and not even know he is doing it.
You are playing with fire if you do not find a way to control his behavior. Your other children have no one else to turn to to protect them and that is where your priorities must lie.
I hope I am wrong. Others may have different experiences to share. I'm just speaking from ours.
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klmno
Active Member
Our most common abbreviation is "difficult child", which means "gift from God"- as in, the challenging child that brought us here. There is a list of common abbreviations on the FAQ section of the board.
Thanks for explaining a bit more. If money is tight and privately placing your child in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or anywhere is out of the question due to finances, then your only chance is thru the legal system- except I just thought of one other way. Well, maybe two, depending on your state law. 1) We have what is called "parental placement" here which allows a parent to sign an agreement with social services (DSS) allowing them to place him at a certain place and the parent still keeps parental rights and can take custody back whenever they want. 2) If the difficult child is on medicaid, you can sometimes get more treatment paid for by them. This might take getting him placed somewhere (like a hospital) for 6 weeks so you can change the type or level of medicaid he has to be based on his income alone (that's why he has to be out of the house for 6 weeks), then medicaid might pay for Residential Treatment Center (RTC). I don't know how much, if any, that varies from state to state.
As far as the legal approach, do a google search for "juvenile intake" or "juveniles entering the juvenile justice system" for your state or county/city. They call it different things in different areas. Usually though, there is a way for a parent to get the child in the system. The people in the system can take over the lives of everyone in the family but it might be the best bet for getting your difficult child into a treatment center. Or, look in your phone book under juvenile probation or something like that and call and asked them how to get their involvement.
Thanks for explaining a bit more. If money is tight and privately placing your child in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or anywhere is out of the question due to finances, then your only chance is thru the legal system- except I just thought of one other way. Well, maybe two, depending on your state law. 1) We have what is called "parental placement" here which allows a parent to sign an agreement with social services (DSS) allowing them to place him at a certain place and the parent still keeps parental rights and can take custody back whenever they want. 2) If the difficult child is on medicaid, you can sometimes get more treatment paid for by them. This might take getting him placed somewhere (like a hospital) for 6 weeks so you can change the type or level of medicaid he has to be based on his income alone (that's why he has to be out of the house for 6 weeks), then medicaid might pay for Residential Treatment Center (RTC). I don't know how much, if any, that varies from state to state.
As far as the legal approach, do a google search for "juvenile intake" or "juveniles entering the juvenile justice system" for your state or county/city. They call it different things in different areas. Usually though, there is a way for a parent to get the child in the system. The people in the system can take over the lives of everyone in the family but it might be the best bet for getting your difficult child into a treatment center. Or, look in your phone book under juvenile probation or something like that and call and asked them how to get their involvement.
They did not want to put him in Jail in Indiana.. The probation officers thought they could handle him.... They just sorted smacked his hand and said don't do this again... Even when he was busted for marijuana, (when he was 11)Then, they helped us place him in Residential treatment there in Indiana, several times, once he was kicked out of the program because they couldn't handle him, he was being too bad. Other times he has earned his way out....
We don't have a home phone, only cell phones that we each keep on our peronal bodies... He doesn't have a house key, but frequently breaks in, if he finds himself locked out.
We keep anything that can be used as a weapon including silverware locked up tight. We don't have credit cards or internet.....
And, until recently we were always told to take him to the hospital, not call the Police.
Now, we call the Police everytime, and we are slowly building a case against him, but he hasn't done anything that they will charge him with since we were told to call the police everytime...
He steals from anyone and anywhere including street bums... even our friends..... and his friends too....
I seriously believe that he doesn't even have a conscience... He doesn't hink that the things he does are wrong... and everything is funny to him...He always blames us and never takes responsibility for his own actions...
2 years ago he was placed in Alternative school after he tore up the local middle school in Indiana and it took 9 people (officers, probation officers and teachers and myself) to get handcuffs on him. Then he trashed the Alternative School. No charges ever filed by either school.....
As, of now he is not in school because they are trying to decide which school would be better for him... So, we can to deal with him 24 hours a day 7 days a week....
I honestly feel like I could sit down and write a book and everyone would still not know the half of what we have been through with this difficult child.
We don't have a home phone, only cell phones that we each keep on our peronal bodies... He doesn't have a house key, but frequently breaks in, if he finds himself locked out.
We keep anything that can be used as a weapon including silverware locked up tight. We don't have credit cards or internet.....
And, until recently we were always told to take him to the hospital, not call the Police.
Now, we call the Police everytime, and we are slowly building a case against him, but he hasn't done anything that they will charge him with since we were told to call the police everytime...
He steals from anyone and anywhere including street bums... even our friends..... and his friends too....
I seriously believe that he doesn't even have a conscience... He doesn't hink that the things he does are wrong... and everything is funny to him...He always blames us and never takes responsibility for his own actions...
2 years ago he was placed in Alternative school after he tore up the local middle school in Indiana and it took 9 people (officers, probation officers and teachers and myself) to get handcuffs on him. Then he trashed the Alternative School. No charges ever filed by either school.....
As, of now he is not in school because they are trying to decide which school would be better for him... So, we can to deal with him 24 hours a day 7 days a week....
I honestly feel like I could sit down and write a book and everyone would still not know the half of what we have been through with this difficult child.
The public school should be providing an interim placement. They can't just let him run loose - it violates the truancy laws. He should be receiving either home instruction or be in a temporary placement.
I'm sorry to hear more of the background - sounds like you have done what you could and tried really hard. Also sounds like you have taken the measures you need to protect yourselves as much as possible.
I would also contact all his friend's parents/families and anyone who he might have the chance to steal from and alert them to the problem. Tell them that difficult child 1 really needs their help and the best way they can help him is to file a police report if he steals, breaks things, breaks into their home or car or does other illegal things. Make it as clear as you can to them that they are NOT helping him if they cover this stuff up or ignore it.
If you aren't already familiar with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and the effects of drugs on the fetus, you might follow this link to a description of the symptoms typical of a child with in utero alcohol exposure. You may find the symptoms match your stepson.
I'm sorry to hear more of the background - sounds like you have done what you could and tried really hard. Also sounds like you have taken the measures you need to protect yourselves as much as possible.
I would also contact all his friend's parents/families and anyone who he might have the chance to steal from and alert them to the problem. Tell them that difficult child 1 really needs their help and the best way they can help him is to file a police report if he steals, breaks things, breaks into their home or car or does other illegal things. Make it as clear as you can to them that they are NOT helping him if they cover this stuff up or ignore it.
If you aren't already familiar with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and the effects of drugs on the fetus, you might follow this link to a description of the symptoms typical of a child with in utero alcohol exposure. You may find the symptoms match your stepson.
Again, Thanks everyone for your advice. I am going to keep praying that somehow everything begins to work out and we are able to get someone to help us. I am hoping to be able to figure out how to get in front of a judge and see if we can get him mandatory placed in a Residential Treatment Center (RTC), and hopefully one that doesn't just let him out.
I feel so free when I am work and church, and dread having to go home and deal with his temper tantrums.
By the way, my husband just called me at work to tell me that one of the Police officers drove by "to check up on J" at least (hopefully) they are realizing that we are needing help.
Whenever "J" has been out of the home in hospitalizations our home has been so happy and peaceful and it almost seems like we are a "normal" family.
Thanks so much to everyone for letting me vent... I just someone to listen and understand where I am coming from and I feel like I have finally found that here.
By the way, I went to that site and your right that does descibe him....
I feel so free when I am work and church, and dread having to go home and deal with his temper tantrums.
By the way, my husband just called me at work to tell me that one of the Police officers drove by "to check up on J" at least (hopefully) they are realizing that we are needing help.
Whenever "J" has been out of the home in hospitalizations our home has been so happy and peaceful and it almost seems like we are a "normal" family.
Thanks so much to everyone for letting me vent... I just someone to listen and understand where I am coming from and I feel like I have finally found that here.
By the way, I went to that site and your right that does descibe him....
emotionallybankrupt
New Member
In my state, the parent can go to juvenile court (just show up) and file a petition without a lawyer. It's done in the office area rather than the courtroom and doesn't cost you a penny. A court date is set at that time.
There are at least two types of petitions. The one I filed (which probably would be the first step if your state has something comparable) is an "Unruly Child Petition." An intake person interviews you, writes the information, and you sign it. This definitely gets you in front of a judge, who has many options at that point, including removal from your home. Probably unlikely at a first hearing, but is still an option on the table.
The other petition, which was suggested to me later but I never filed, is a "Petition to Divest." This is extreme and is essentially the parent's plea for the state to take custody. This would trigger a child support order for the parent to pay the state--probably not a deal-breaker in your case, but just something to be aware of. If the state takes custody, then all treatment/placement options are available at state expense.
I don't live in Florida, but I can't believe similar petitions don't exist there. I'd actually GO to the juvenile court building and ask to speak with somebody about the situation.
From your descriptions of difficult child's behaviors, and all the interventions you have tried, I just can't imagine how you can get relief without court intervention.
There are at least two types of petitions. The one I filed (which probably would be the first step if your state has something comparable) is an "Unruly Child Petition." An intake person interviews you, writes the information, and you sign it. This definitely gets you in front of a judge, who has many options at that point, including removal from your home. Probably unlikely at a first hearing, but is still an option on the table.
The other petition, which was suggested to me later but I never filed, is a "Petition to Divest." This is extreme and is essentially the parent's plea for the state to take custody. This would trigger a child support order for the parent to pay the state--probably not a deal-breaker in your case, but just something to be aware of. If the state takes custody, then all treatment/placement options are available at state expense.
I don't live in Florida, but I can't believe similar petitions don't exist there. I'd actually GO to the juvenile court building and ask to speak with somebody about the situation.
From your descriptions of difficult child's behaviors, and all the interventions you have tried, I just can't imagine how you can get relief without court intervention.
emotionallybankrupt
New Member
In Florida? I doubt it. Unless there is some safety issue involved, I think that allowing him on your property is sufficient. People camp outside all the time. Unless it is too cold, etc., a tent in the backyard with necessary supplies should be sufficient.
What I had told my difficult child at one point is that if she missed curfew, she'd better not wake me up, because I had to go to work the next day. I set her up a comfy lawn chair on the back deck and told her to have at it. I discussed it with the police, and they told me there was no problem with that. The lawn chair, in my opinion, is not a bad deal. I've taken naps in it before.
Thanks, I think I will check with the local Law Enforcement and see what they have to say. Last night was awful for us, no sleep because difficult child 1 refused to go to bed and started trashing the room, when we called the Police he immediately calmed down and again since he didn't hurt us or threaten to hurt us they couldn't do anything. Then, 10 mins after they left, he said he was going to bed, when we fell asleep he left and left the door standing wide open, my easy child felt the cold air and came and woke me up. I shut the door and locked it and went back to bed, ( I was fed up), he came back at 5:00 am in the morning banging on the doors and windows and trying to break-in the door.
Sometimes, he really just pushes all my buttons and I am so mad that I see red, at these times it is all I can do to remain calm....
Sometimes, he really just pushes all my buttons and I am so mad that I see red, at these times it is all I can do to remain calm....
klmno
Active Member
OK, this might not be the way things have always gone for you, but from my experience, cops will not do hardly anything if a parent calls for something like this- or if a kid leaves home without permission UNLESS the locale has a curfew and the child sneaks out at night. I suggest not calling when he is unruly (but not violent or doing anything illegal- like stealing or doing drugs) at home, but waiting and calling when he is either violent, doing something illegal, or gone in the middle of the nnight. Check and see if there is a curfew for minors in your area- even if there isn't, you can call and report him as a runaway. IOW, maybe the problem is that you are calling before things get so chaotic that the extent of the problem is obvious to them. Oh- it also might go a lot farther if his bio-father calls- only because the cops might take it more serious at this point.
On the other side of the coin- yes I could get in trouble legally if I ever locked my son out of the house. I'm not saying it always makes sense or that I haven't locked the door before when he's been gone, but no matter what he has done, I could get in trouble for locking him out unless I have called 911 and said he has threatened violence toward me and I am too scared to open the door. That will get police and/or CPS out there pretty quick though.
emotionallybankrupt
New Member
I'm guessing that police response probably depends a lot on where you are. In Mayberry, where I live, I can use the lawn chair move, and I can also call and expect help in home situations such as you describe. Across town, however, in a different area outside the "town," the response is completely different--or non-response, as the case may be. Several months ago, I had a huge crisis with difficult child while on a shopping trip in a different jurisdiction. I needed help in the worst way, but didn't even call, because I knew difficult child was likely to get the satisfaction of nothing happening.
I'm guessing you don't live in Mayberry. It has the disadvantage of everybody knowing your business, but I've been able to get help when I needed it. I wish you could get some help, because it's so very obvious you need intervention immediately.
I'm guessing you don't live in Mayberry. It has the disadvantage of everybody knowing your business, but I've been able to get help when I needed it. I wish you could get some help, because it's so very obvious you need intervention immediately.
Yes, you are right, we don't live in Mayberry, wished we did. We live in a rather large City, unfortunately.
And, even worse, when I arrived home from work last night, I found out that difficult child 1 had taken off and said he would be back when he got back. Then approximately 30 minutes after I arrived home, he came back and it was very obvious he was on something.
We questioned him and he denied everything, but before our eyes he was passing out at &:30 in the evening... Now, usually I would be screaming hooray, but I knew something was wrong. Suddenly my daughter who was sitting closest to him got up and went to my husband and said he's saying something about 2 bottles of robitussin and pills that he stole from the store. I called 911 and they took him to the hospital. psychiatrist says" he's not a danger to himself, and the police wouldn't arrest him for the thefts because it was not called in by the store. They tried to send him home and we refused and made them keep him in the hospital..
We are so ready for this to be over, he is getting worse on a daily basis... I don't know how we can survive much longer.....
And, even worse, when I arrived home from work last night, I found out that difficult child 1 had taken off and said he would be back when he got back. Then approximately 30 minutes after I arrived home, he came back and it was very obvious he was on something.
We questioned him and he denied everything, but before our eyes he was passing out at &:30 in the evening... Now, usually I would be screaming hooray, but I knew something was wrong. Suddenly my daughter who was sitting closest to him got up and went to my husband and said he's saying something about 2 bottles of robitussin and pills that he stole from the store. I called 911 and they took him to the hospital. psychiatrist says" he's not a danger to himself, and the police wouldn't arrest him for the thefts because it was not called in by the store. They tried to send him home and we refused and made them keep him in the hospital..
We are so ready for this to be over, he is getting worse on a daily basis... I don't know how we can survive much longer.....
