BusynMember
Well-Known Member
We didnt cause it and cant fix it. I believe in DNA a lot. And luck. I believe in luck maybe the most. Neglectful or abusive parents sometimes have great kids.
It is what it is.
It is what it is.
7 months on...i'm back
- Thread starter Lost in sadness
- Start date
Jabberwockey
Well-Known Member
Cant deny that since our son does a ton of things, including facial expressions, that Lil says are straight up his biological father and he had very little contact with him AND he passed away when our son was 7.
Take it from someone who has a nice handful of autominmune illnesses, you can NOT live like this for any length of time without it negatively influencing your health.
The disrespect alone is reason for him to GOoooooo!!!! He is pushing abusive...and kind of already is.
I would give him a proper notice (30 days max???) and tell him him and his girlfriend need to gooooo. Put it in writing. Adopt the attitude of a traffic cop. “Yes, you ran that stop light. Yes, I’m giving you a ticket. Yes, you will need to go to court.” “Yes, you will need to leave the house. No, I won’t be changing my mind. Yes, I am extremely serious.” No emotion. Just the hard facts.
The disrespect alone is reason for him to GOoooooo!!!! He is pushing abusive...and kind of already is.
I would give him a proper notice (30 days max???) and tell him him and his girlfriend need to gooooo. Put it in writing. Adopt the attitude of a traffic cop. “Yes, you ran that stop light. Yes, I’m giving you a ticket. Yes, you will need to go to court.” “Yes, you will need to leave the house. No, I won’t be changing my mind. Yes, I am extremely serious.” No emotion. Just the hard facts.
Whoops. I reread. He IS being abusive. I’m so sorry. He needs to leave your home in my opinion. Awful. What do you think?
If you want, you can have Social services information / phone numbers to give him. But he probably won’t be open to that or be abusive. If you are already paying for his cell phone, you might continue with that for emergency purposes and to aid him with employment.
You didn’t cause this. Just trying like this with him in your home shows love and compassion. But, he is not grateful. In fact, he is abusive. Your love and compassion isn’t working. I’m sorry. This is not your fault. In fact, allowing him to stay in your home when he is abusive sends him the message that being abusive pays off. This is the wrong message. in my humble opinion, you need to get him out. Seek legal counsel if necessary. You might need to get him out ASAP.
If you want, you can have Social services information / phone numbers to give him. But he probably won’t be open to that or be abusive. If you are already paying for his cell phone, you might continue with that for emergency purposes and to aid him with employment.
You didn’t cause this. Just trying like this with him in your home shows love and compassion. But, he is not grateful. In fact, he is abusive. Your love and compassion isn’t working. I’m sorry. This is not your fault. In fact, allowing him to stay in your home when he is abusive sends him the message that being abusive pays off. This is the wrong message. in my humble opinion, you need to get him out. Seek legal counsel if necessary. You might need to get him out ASAP.
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You've had lots of good advice here. I don't think I can add anything to what others have said, especially as I'm grappling with many of the same issues myself. Many of the things you have posted apply to my own son. Just wanted to say hello and send you my support. I know when I was really down a few weeks back it helped to know I wasn't the only one with these issues.
Lost in sadness
Active Member
Thank you ALL so so much for your advice. I feel emotionally weak and so so tired right now but your kindness and heartfelt advice gives me strength. I had a good childhood and great parents/brother. We all get along now and would never speak to each other in the way my son does. I do not understand.
I need to forgive myself for my mistakes rather than feeling it is all my fault. I realise we all have choices. I am currently sitting in my car after the school run dreading going home! He came in at 1.40am this morning and remains in bed.
I have just rang him and told him he needs to get up and already he has had his say and hung up. I have found a couple of private rooms where they do not require references and I will be viewing them tomorrow with the view he will go this weekend or next. It hurts and I need to shake the guilty/bad mother/abandonment feeling but I’m still doing it. I am sorry for all of us that are here treading this difficult path but am so so grateful for this site and the lovely people that still give their time, experience and advice. Thank you xx
I need to forgive myself for my mistakes rather than feeling it is all my fault. I realise we all have choices. I am currently sitting in my car after the school run dreading going home! He came in at 1.40am this morning and remains in bed.
I have just rang him and told him he needs to get up and already he has had his say and hung up. I have found a couple of private rooms where they do not require references and I will be viewing them tomorrow with the view he will go this weekend or next. It hurts and I need to shake the guilty/bad mother/abandonment feeling but I’m still doing it. I am sorry for all of us that are here treading this difficult path but am so so grateful for this site and the lovely people that still give their time, experience and advice. Thank you xx
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I guess I am wondering here what mistakes you made that would have been so bad. Each of us reacts. Each of us gets emotional. Each of us makes decisions based upon of our needs and self-interest.
But more to the point, the question is how do we forgive ourselves and let this go, and not be defined by this failure on our part, that we perceive?
In my own life I am finding this to be the stumbling block. My difficulty letting go.
Good. It is very hard. You are not abandoning him. You are supporting him to grow up.
___
I went away for an hour and I thought about your post. I am thinking here that anybody when they are abused and stay subjected to it, will act like an abused person. Like the Stockholm Syndrome, when somebody is kidnapped and begins to identify with their kidnappers and look to them for protection, like what happened to Patty Hearst in my country so many years ago.
With our kids, the basic part of motherhood is wanting to protect them, feeling the intense need to nurture them and the responsibility to support them to arrive to a functional and worthy adulthood. And those of us here, are failing at this. We keep believing that we are failing, and we try and try and try. Until we feel we have become our child's victim. And we have.
And even that, sometimes, becomes preferable than to face that nothing can do will help our child or to restore our sense that we were good enough mothers. I think that the only way to face and move beyond this is to do what you are doing, to do the right thing, with the hope that the feelings will follow. And realize that that the feelings are NOT the main event.
Not only did you not cause this, you can't make it better. Or more to the point, only he can. And any action by you that pushes him to a position where he has to take responsibility for himself and his behavior, is the right thing, I believe.
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New Leaf
Well-Known Member
The same sort of thing happened when my eldest was 18. She was not as belligerent and abusive. Moody as all get out, felt entitled, partied late and then slept most of the day, while we were at work. Okay, wait, I just had a flashback. It was horrible for me to be around her. I felt as though she hated me. Emotional abuse.
We put up with all kinds of garbage and brush it under the rug because these are our kids.
I made her leave. It was not pretty. She was given chance after chance to get it together, follow house rules and it didn’t happen. So, out she went. It was tough and I often look back and wonder if that was the start of it all, me making her leave.
But, the truth is Lost, she had an opportunity to pull it together and show appreciation for living under our roof. That’s the difference. When we house these adult kids and they have no gratitude, feel entitled, even become belligerent and resentful, I believe we are doing them no favors. Cedar wrote years back that our kids are meant to grow up and leave the nest. When we allow them to live at home without their cooperation and giving back, doing something to contribute, we are clipping their wings. They are meant to fly, we are holding them back from realizing their responsibilities and potential, from writing their own story.
When my two were in my home, their using escalated, they used drugs, and us. We were essentially funding their addictions by allowing them to be in our home. Things never got better. Meanwhile, my youngest two were growing up watching all of this and were so affected by all of the chaos and drama. It was quite unfair to them, but we did not see the “Forrest for the trees.” We were all so affected by the craziness. It was traumatizing.
When I finally put my foot down and said no more, this peace came over my home. We didn’t have to walk on eggshells, wondering when the next bomb would drop. We could leave our valuables out, things didn’t suddenly go missing. I didn’t realize what we were living with. Looking back, recounting all the drama and heartache, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
I do believe it is akin to being kidnapped, “Patty Hearst syndrome”. We begin to try everything to placate our wayward kids, to “make things right”. Without realizing it, we are playing right into the hands of these kids. Putting up with more and more abuse and disrespect, for fear of the alternative, “abandoning” them.
In reality, we have abandoned ourselves. We have given up our right to have peace in our homes. We have dropped any expectations of decency and respect from these adult kids. It is a vicious cycle, and they know how to play us well. They know how to turn the tables and tug at our heartstrings when we have had enough. It is sad and insidious. That our kids would grow up and become so horrid in our own homes.That we would feel so completely devastated at the thought of having them leave, that we are abandoning them.
We are not helping them by allowing them to come into our homes, our spaces, and be jerks. Doing whatever they please. We are condoning their belligerence. They are old enough to get out there and work for a living.
If it were any of us, on the verge of homelessness, doubling up with someone kind enough to take us in, shelter us, we would be humble and grateful.
Not these kids. They just take and take and take.
It's not right. It’s not how we raised them.
I fell into the rabbit hole over the holidays, my daughter in jail kept calling and spewing Bible verses, how she needed to come home, be with family again, she missed all of us and her kids. She would call almost daily, telling me she had no where to go, the rehabs were full. It was the hardest thing to say no. I knew deep in my heart that if she came home, things would go right back to the same, and she would drag all of us down that road with her. I also promised my son after the last hellish exodus three years ago, that I would never allow it again. That helped me climb my way back up out of that mothers magical thinking that I could help my thirty year old daughter make better choices. I can’t. I can’t control her. She will do what she wants, with nary an eye blink of how it will affect those who love her.
She is out of jail, Lost. No word from her, an Instagram post with a selfie with this “The
has me again.” Her brother saw this, her kids can see this. All of those promises to get better, forgotten. I suppose she will say it’s because I did not allow her back home, that’s a bunch of bull. If she wanted to change, she would make it happen. My obligation is to make sure my son has a peaceful sanctuary to come home to, so he can concentrate on graduating and apply himself to his future.
Sorry for the length of this post, I am venting! It’s because your words struck me, “ I feel like I’m abandoning him.” I was right there with you, even after everything that’s happened, when my daughter was calling from jail. I told her no, but it took everything out of me to do it. I felt so sad, so deeply sad. I had to work hard to push those emotions away, to build myself back up.
I had to go back to my old toolbox, to my Mom and Dad, who would never, ever put up with any of the stuff we have. They were loving, but stern. We had and have respect for them, for their home.
We knew that we had to find our way, once we graduated. I know, things are different, the economy is different. People live with their parents. But, they help clean, pay bills. They contribute.
You are not abandoning your son by refusing to allow his disrespect and belligerence in your home. You are pushing him towards responsibility. You are helping him grow, by standing up for yourself, your home, your daughter.
You’ve got this. It is not acceptable for us to live the rest of our lives miserable because of our adult children’s choices.
You matter, your future matters.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy
We put up with all kinds of garbage and brush it under the rug because these are our kids.
I made her leave. It was not pretty. She was given chance after chance to get it together, follow house rules and it didn’t happen. So, out she went. It was tough and I often look back and wonder if that was the start of it all, me making her leave.
But, the truth is Lost, she had an opportunity to pull it together and show appreciation for living under our roof. That’s the difference. When we house these adult kids and they have no gratitude, feel entitled, even become belligerent and resentful, I believe we are doing them no favors. Cedar wrote years back that our kids are meant to grow up and leave the nest. When we allow them to live at home without their cooperation and giving back, doing something to contribute, we are clipping their wings. They are meant to fly, we are holding them back from realizing their responsibilities and potential, from writing their own story.
When my two were in my home, their using escalated, they used drugs, and us. We were essentially funding their addictions by allowing them to be in our home. Things never got better. Meanwhile, my youngest two were growing up watching all of this and were so affected by all of the chaos and drama. It was quite unfair to them, but we did not see the “Forrest for the trees.” We were all so affected by the craziness. It was traumatizing.
When I finally put my foot down and said no more, this peace came over my home. We didn’t have to walk on eggshells, wondering when the next bomb would drop. We could leave our valuables out, things didn’t suddenly go missing. I didn’t realize what we were living with. Looking back, recounting all the drama and heartache, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
I do believe it is akin to being kidnapped, “Patty Hearst syndrome”. We begin to try everything to placate our wayward kids, to “make things right”. Without realizing it, we are playing right into the hands of these kids. Putting up with more and more abuse and disrespect, for fear of the alternative, “abandoning” them.
In reality, we have abandoned ourselves. We have given up our right to have peace in our homes. We have dropped any expectations of decency and respect from these adult kids. It is a vicious cycle, and they know how to play us well. They know how to turn the tables and tug at our heartstrings when we have had enough. It is sad and insidious. That our kids would grow up and become so horrid in our own homes.That we would feel so completely devastated at the thought of having them leave, that we are abandoning them.
We are not helping them by allowing them to come into our homes, our spaces, and be jerks. Doing whatever they please. We are condoning their belligerence. They are old enough to get out there and work for a living.
If it were any of us, on the verge of homelessness, doubling up with someone kind enough to take us in, shelter us, we would be humble and grateful.
Not these kids. They just take and take and take.
It's not right. It’s not how we raised them.
I fell into the rabbit hole over the holidays, my daughter in jail kept calling and spewing Bible verses, how she needed to come home, be with family again, she missed all of us and her kids. She would call almost daily, telling me she had no where to go, the rehabs were full. It was the hardest thing to say no. I knew deep in my heart that if she came home, things would go right back to the same, and she would drag all of us down that road with her. I also promised my son after the last hellish exodus three years ago, that I would never allow it again. That helped me climb my way back up out of that mothers magical thinking that I could help my thirty year old daughter make better choices. I can’t. I can’t control her. She will do what she wants, with nary an eye blink of how it will affect those who love her.
She is out of jail, Lost. No word from her, an Instagram post with a selfie with this “The
has me again.” Her brother saw this, her kids can see this. All of those promises to get better, forgotten. I suppose she will say it’s because I did not allow her back home, that’s a bunch of bull. If she wanted to change, she would make it happen. My obligation is to make sure my son has a peaceful sanctuary to come home to, so he can concentrate on graduating and apply himself to his future.Sorry for the length of this post, I am venting! It’s because your words struck me, “ I feel like I’m abandoning him.” I was right there with you, even after everything that’s happened, when my daughter was calling from jail. I told her no, but it took everything out of me to do it. I felt so sad, so deeply sad. I had to work hard to push those emotions away, to build myself back up.
I had to go back to my old toolbox, to my Mom and Dad, who would never, ever put up with any of the stuff we have. They were loving, but stern. We had and have respect for them, for their home.
We knew that we had to find our way, once we graduated. I know, things are different, the economy is different. People live with their parents. But, they help clean, pay bills. They contribute.
You are not abandoning your son by refusing to allow his disrespect and belligerence in your home. You are pushing him towards responsibility. You are helping him grow, by standing up for yourself, your home, your daughter.
You’ve got this. It is not acceptable for us to live the rest of our lives miserable because of our adult children’s choices.
You matter, your future matters.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy
beebz
Member
It has been a long time since I have posted. I felt like I was living on this site and there was always a new drama or a story to tell so I had to take a break.
Some may remember my stories and I see, sadly, there are new members whose stories I have tried to catch up on.
I am not sure if things are really any better although it would be wrong to not acknowledge the positives as well as the messes. There is just so much, I do not know where to start but I have to get this out. I am sorry it is long.
My son moved back home last June after he was thrown out of his girlfriends house. Reluctantly because he had a job and could not be on the streets we said he could come back for a couple of months and get financially straight. He is still here!!!
I love him dearly but we simply do not get along and it is getting worse and worse and I am starting to feel unwell again. I know you all warned me but I felt obligated to help.
He did lose the job he had….again but managed to secure another two months later when I told him I had had enough of him dosing about the house. Already the signs are showing again where he calls in sick, is always late etc. Today is the start of a permanent contract and he has rang in sick!!! I am livid.
I will now list the other issues and maybe some kind members could offer any insight or guidance.
- He still smokes copious amounts of weed
- He has no respect in the house in terms of timings, noise levels etc and says “I’m 20 and can do what I like”
-Comes in late and then starts cooking, no regards for the fact we are in bed. Eats the food in his room and leaves the plates on floor. Wear 5/6 items of clothing a day and I wash and iron it all!
- We cannot go out without him having people in the house despite being told not too.
-You may remember my last post was about going on holiday and whether I could trust him. You were all right we came home to drink all up the walls and a hole in one of our doors!
-The ex girlfriend is having a baby in 6 weeks and he is likely to be the dad (DNA pending) ARGH!!!
- We had one drug dealer knock on the door and we gave him a warning.
- The police at the door at 4.30am arresting him for rape (false allegation, now cleared)
- He pays not a penny in rent – the deal was to not pay rent but pay his debt off instead. In 8 months he has earnt £9,900 and paid £700 off of debt. Where is the rest???!! Always a excuse. Didn't even get a card off of him for Christmas but he took the £600 worth of presents off of me and lied saying the presents were at home for us.
-Lie lie lie lie lie lie
-He helps himself to what he wants from our beers to hairspray to my husbands aftershave.
-He asked if his new girlfriend could stay over one night and we said yes and now she goes home one night in 14!! She doesn’t speak to us at all and my son would never leave her alone with us for some reason, She does as she is told by him.
I have told him it needs to stop and he gets angry as he needs her to take him to work. What happened to getting the bus?
-He has a terrible temper and still gets angry, shouts and can become abusive. (Usually when any of the above is challenged or if you ever tell him NO)
I am sick to death of the drama with him, there is always something! Usually following a night out, beaten up or some rubbish. He appears to need drink and drugs in his life to cope with all of the messes which somehow he manages to create.
My issue is….he is working….in there is a good boy and bits are better so I am not sure he has done anything SO terrible I need to throw him out…BUT, I am simply on edge around him, we do not get along, he is not taking responsibility or sticking to the agreements. If we give an inch, he takes a mile. He is told about stuff and gets back in line briefly before reverting back again. My husband says he is taking the pi** out of me and is a manipulative little sh*t. Sadly I agree. I love him but I do not like him.
Yesterday I asked for some money he promised me and he flipped his lid screaming at me that I was horrible, arrogant, making him ill, giving him nightmares etc. Slammed his way out of the house. Returned hours later as if nothing had happened and I am still a wreck. My husband says he has to go!
I don’t know where he will go, how he will afford it or manage and I would hate him to feel he is not loved or wanted but he is simply not moving forwards with life. I am terrified about how he will cope being a dad!
Actually having wrote this and read it back……not much has changed at all other than he generally goes to work albeit late he doesn’t call me a c*nt anymore
I almost hate to do this, it has been done and said to me, its is hard all the way around.
But my comment is, "how long do YOU want to do this"? YOU, not your son, YOU.
I've done it for 20 years, the girlfriends moving in (sob story) the wife moving in (sob story) the whole family moving in (2 daughters plus parents), co-signing, lending 10's of thousands of dollars, drugs, there is so much more. I was a huge part of the problem. I was the biggest enabler and didn't really know it. I called it "love".
Anyhow, I am 57 now, the homeless addict is 34 - its been 20 years starting with "weed". NOTHING has changed, nothing, except I am older, more broke financially, broken as a human, broken as a mother etc.
I have finally taken my life back, mostly, no one has lived here in a LONG time. I let them visit when it is 7 degrees outside but I swiftly kick them out and give them a ride, dump them off and don't look back. Of course I cry all the way home. But this must be done. I do share custody of the grand daughters which is just fine and dandy. Its not their fault, they are innocent and as a grandma I have more patience and enjoy sitting and laughing at their silliness and sitting in utter amazement at their intelligence.
Keep reading. Think of yourself - you are ALLOWED to think of yourself and you better before it is too late. I was consumed and unable to function and fall back into that place often. Read, pray, hope and faith will help you go day to day; actually moment to moment. Be well, be safe and you would not be wrong to think of yourself - do it - ~warmly - ~beebz
elizabrary
Well-Known Member
Usually I'm a huge proponent of writing out a contract for adult kids living in our homes about behavior, holding a job, etc. and then holding them to it or kicking them out after their first infraction. However, he has crossed numerous lines, most recently scaring your daughter and he needs to go. YOU should not find him a place nor pay for it. He is an adult and can do these things himself. Whether he wants to do them or not is another story, but that is his choice. Remember, enabling is doing something for another adult they are capable of doing for themselves. Your adult son is capable of finding a job, place to live, health care, etc. If he chooses not to do these things then he must suffer the consequences. There are many days I don't feel like going to work, but if I lose my job nobody will take me and my numerous pets in and house and feed us. Nor should they. Everyone here knows how difficult this is. I threw my daughter out with my infant granddaughter when she refused to follow the rules we had agreed upon. I literally felt like I was going to die. I felt like I couldn't breathe. I barely slept for days. But guess what? She found someone to take them in and someone gave her a car. Yes, GAVE her a car. These adult kids are remarkably resourceful when they need to be. Put your focus where it belongs- on your own health and well-being. Send him on his way. Sending peace to you.
Lost in sadness
Active Member
Thank you so much for this reply. I have only just picked it up! I am going to start a new thread. xx
Lost in sadness
Active Member
Thank you so much for this reply. I have only just picked it up! I am going to start a new thread. xx
WiseChoices
Well-Known Member
I was going to say the same thing: stop doing for him and take care of you. Don't look for a place for him. Just tell him he has to be out by whatever day you chose.
I recently told my son that I am backing off. That is all I told him but what I mean is no more advice, suggestions, questions. Unless he specifically asks for advice, there will be none .I have not made a single suggestion for job searches, I no longer say anything about the test he needs to take for grad school. It's all his business . And I am busy tending to my business . He told me this morning he has looked into the test, he is applying to better suited jobs (instead of gas stations with a college degree) , and I just encourage. "Good for you", "That makes sense", "I see", "You may be right". I have stopped telling my stories , relating my life's experience, having a hidden agenda of getting him to see things my way. It was my own self-centered that was in the way . Once I realized I wanted him to change to eleviate my fears , and I saw how selfish that is, I was able to surrender. He will figure it out .every mistake he makes will lead to corrections for him.
I recently told my son that I am backing off. That is all I told him but what I mean is no more advice, suggestions, questions. Unless he specifically asks for advice, there will be none .I have not made a single suggestion for job searches, I no longer say anything about the test he needs to take for grad school. It's all his business . And I am busy tending to my business . He told me this morning he has looked into the test, he is applying to better suited jobs (instead of gas stations with a college degree) , and I just encourage. "Good for you", "That makes sense", "I see", "You may be right". I have stopped telling my stories , relating my life's experience, having a hidden agenda of getting him to see things my way. It was my own self-centered that was in the way . Once I realized I wanted him to change to eleviate my fears , and I saw how selfish that is, I was able to surrender. He will figure it out .every mistake he makes will lead to corrections for him.
