Feeling gulity

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by overcome mom, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. overcome mom

    overcome mom Member

    I am new to the forum and it has been helpful to read that I am not alone.
    I have a 25 year old son who has severe ADD and has been diagnosis as bipolar although I'm not sure about this. He definitely has a conduct -personality disorder. To make a very long story short he ran away constantly as a teenage, has been locked up to many times to count, 2 times in prison. We thought this last couple of years that he was growing up some and paid for him to go to a trade school. He has never held a job for more than 6 weeks and this was also true after graduating. He is intelligent and can be charming so talks (I think sometimes lies) himself into getting a job. He constantly is asking for money because he can't keep a job or some crisis happens. I am likely to give him money so that he is not homeless ,although he has been numerous times. After he got out of prison I paid for an apartment ,food ,electric. He never paid. He married an older women (in her 40's) and told us later. She has numerous problems. He and she are now in jail for domestic battery. He wants me to bail him out AGAIN . I have told him no. He says he wants to go live with his birth mother but has no way to get there or money when he gets out.

    Here is my continual dilemma. He is mentally ill and therefore his brain does not work the same as many people. Should I let him have the consequences of his actions if he has an illness? Is a mental illness so different than someone with Parkinson's or diabetes? Can he really control his thoughts? Sometimes I feel that I am turning my back on my sick child. I do not think that he should be able to do things against the law with no consequences hence the prison time. But I have a very hard time not giving him money when he loses a job, and has no place to live and nothing to eat. I am now retired and have some money but am not sure how long we (husband-father) will live so am worried about running out. Is saying he made his choices now he has to live with them a way out for my husband and I? I am definitely in a FOG-thoughts
  2. Tired out

    Tired out Active Member

    Hi Over come mom.
    I feel for you.
    I would leave him in jail. He is dry and fed. It sounds like he is a master manipulator (my son is too).
    When he is out of jail. If he truly has mental issues and is diagnosed can't he get some kind of public assistance rather than you paying for him?
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  3. overcome mom

    overcome mom Member

    It is very hard to get public assistance when you are homeless and of course he doesn't want to believe that he has a mental illness. He will admit to the ADD but doesn't see what harm it is doing. You have to pretty much pay for an attorney to get SSI disability . When he was younger he was in residential treatment and had 3 different psychiatrist that said he was bipolar. He is constantly living in different states
  4. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Welcome Overcome!
    I'm glad you found us here but sorry you had to. Your story if a familiar one.
    My story with my son is very similar to yours.

    Okay, if he wants to go live with his birth mother then let her pay.

    There are many levels of mental illness. Having ADHD and or Bipolar are both very manageable. There are thousands of people who manage their lives quite well. It all comes down to choice. The person has to accept they need to be on medication and or change their diet as they have found diet contributes greatly to certain disorders. You cannot force someone to take medication.

    I am always amazed that even though there is a diagnosis of ADHD or Bipolar, that difficult adult children are master manipulators. They know how to play on our emotions. Don't let your son hold your emotions hostage.

    It's not easy to separate our emotions from dealing with our difficult adult children but it's those emotions that our children are counting on. They are counting on us feeling guilty so we will give into them. If we tell them no then they will ramp it up and try to manipulate us into feeling guilty.
    My son has made the choice to be homeless, to not be responsible, and I have had desperate calls from him telling me he's going to starve to death, or he's going to freeze to death. Yes, it's heartbreaking but I told him he needed to get to a shelter.

    My son is 36 and I've been dealing with his out of control behavior for close to 25 years. I have done it all, given money, paid for therapy, paid for places for him to live, bought a car, paid for cell phones, paid for food, clothes, etc............... I have literally spent ten of thousands of dollars trying to "help" him. What I was really doing was enabling him.
    I was stuck in the FOG - fear, obligation, guilt.

    You and your husband need to guard your money. Too many people have wiped out their life savings and retirement funds giving it to their out of control, ungrateful, difficult adult children.

    There will come a time when we, the parents die. Then what??? The longer we enable our children the harder we make it for them down the road when we are no longer here. It's better that they learn how to navigate life on their own. It's better that they have to face the consequences of their actions regardless of having ADHD or Biopolar.

    I know this heartbreaking, I've lived it for many years. What I can tell you is I have and many others have come out of the FOG. We have detached with love and have taken our lives back. Yes, I live a very happy life despite they chaotic life my son chooses to live.

    There is a very good article about detachment at the top of this forum. Here is a link to it.
    It has some wonderful advice.

    I'm glad you are here with us. You are not alone.

    Keep posting and let us know how you are doing.

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  5. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I volunteer with young mentally ill adults and most are employed. They do have places to live for adults who need a little help (some are independent) and everyone who hangs out at this center is compliant in treatment. Some have had legal troubles, mostly drug related, but are not in trouble now.

    A big thing is that they feel responsible for their behavior and not one of them gets support from parents. Most are estranged or more commonly have parents without means. But they are basically working, socializing, living a normal life. Many get Disability but they still work steady jobs part time. Some have bipolar. Some have schizophrenia, which is more serious and harder to control. Most in our group also get Medicaid and have a case manager and go to a therapist. There are good supports out there. There are places to live too but you have to follow the rules. And you need a bonafide diagnosis and ADD is not a psychiatric problem.

    I have a mood disorder. It does not cause psychosis. It is a MOOD disorder. You dont have a problem with reality. A personality disorder is hard to treat and the people tend to act in unacceptable ways and are not likable, but they also are in touch with reality. And they could get better if they chose to. Most just wont. We dont seem to have people with personality disorders at our social group. Most are extremely nice, very helpful toward one another, and doing well. If someone acts out, which is very rare, they are expelled.

    I would expect your son to behave. He isnt even trying to do better. Whatever his best is, he is not living up to it. He is not psychotic. He knows right from wrong. He has the ability to get better. He can follow the law and work. It diesnt have to be a high level job. To get SSI a professional plus their professional needs to say he is incapable if working full time. Not that he wont. That he cant. These days it is harder to get approved.

    Was your son exposed to alcohol or drugs by his birthmother in utero? If so, of course his brain was affected. If you have records of this child abuse in utero, you should not have trouble getting him SSI, even now when it is harder. This is almost a sure thing for SSI. If his birthmom drank, he could have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. A neuro psychologist is needed for that diagnosis. It is irreversible brain damage and those who have it really can not learn right from wrong and need very specialized living situations and handling. None of this is your doing.
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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  6. overcome mom

    overcome mom Member

    Thank you all for your replies. I just got off the phone with him from jail and told him again that I am not going to bail him out. He says that he is there because of wife ( she's there too ) and he didn't do anything. He has never been violent in the past and she has been arrested numerous times for physically attacking people. I told him he made choices that got him in there- going back with her, going back to the house etc. It is just so very hard to know if now is the right time to say no. I go back and forth he needs his medication for a severe infection but they told me he will have to wait until next week to see the DR. It may spread even more by then but they said he will have to wait. I feel fine with him going to live with his birthmother but she too has no money (same issues he has with people). I do see my son trying but when things get hard or frustrating then he reverts to old ways. Yes he does know right from wrong and has consequences for doing illegal things.
    ADD is a mental illness and is defined by National Alliance on Mental Illness and is classified as such in the DSM. There are gradations of the illness. I know many students that have it and can function perfectly fine with medication .ADD is not some made up diagnosis it is a very real thing. Many with ADD have dual diagnosis as is the case with my son, he has had 4 psychiatrist say he is bipolar. ADD can be qualifying diagnosis for SSI . We struggled get him through school and only graduated from High school because he was in residential treatment and the school district didn't want to pay any longer. If you have lived with a child with ADD you know what a struggle it is for them especially when some teachers think that it is not a "real" thing and only see it as away for students to have "special" circumstances. They have now been able to see difference in the brains of people with ADD.
    I am hoping that when he is in jail that he can really think what he needs to do differently and make a change. He did actually admit to me on the phone that he had lied about where some of the money I gave him was being spent. At least he is taking a little responsibility. Just pray that he will be able to improve some.
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  7. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    I have learned to always be on my guard when my son tells me something about how jail/prison operate. He has lied to me too many times. While your son may be telling you the truth about this, if it were me, I would verify it with the facility he is being held at.

    Again, I advise caution here. I do hope his being honest about this is genuine but I know first hand how when our difficult adult children feel trapped, they will tell us what we want to hear. This is another manipulation tactic. By telling us what we want to hear, it's easy to let our guard down because we think "hey, he's finally getting it" and when we let our guard down it makes it that much easier to manipulate us.

    Please be very careful and guard yourself.
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  8. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I didnt mean ADD isnt real, although I do feel it is often in conjunction with something else. I was told flat out and do believe that ADD is a neurological problem, not a mental illness. Autism too. I have an autistic son. Many professionals explained this to me. Im surprised its in the DSM as a mental illness but never was a big fan of the ever changing DSM. I believe ADD is neurological. Just like Autism is. It is fine not to agree.

    Even if it is, say, neurological as I was told, that doesnt mean these issues dont cause big problems. My Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) son struggled, but got very good interventions and is a wonderful adult who still has Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). With Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) you always have some ADD similarities, in fact many professionals now believe ADD is on the autism spectrum.

    They can cause behavioral problems but they are due to neurological glitches, not mental illness unless it is co morbid. This, that I am repeating, was lastly told to me by my son's neuro psychologist from Mayo Clinic. I believe him and his reputation is impeccable. Personally, and I of course am not a neuro psychologist from Mayo Clinic, feel more is going on with your son than ADD.

    I do have a mental illness....a mood disorder...and have learning disabilities and was once told I have ADD and was put on Ritalin (one time was enough for me)...i guess I am saying it doesnt really matter what is wrong. Usually if there is one thing "off" there are two things or three or four. Regardless, we as adults need to learn how to deal with a bad hand of cards and many of us work and dont go to jail ever, even with issues.

    The only other alternative is to give up and live a lousy life. There is wonderful treatment for both ADD and bipolar these days, if he has that. But nobody can force him to get treatment. That is on his shoulders. It is on everyone's shoulders. All of ours. It is not so different from cancer...if you feel sick but dont see a doctor for treatment, you cant get well.

    I am deeply sorry your son is not yet willing to take steps to improve his life, but that could change. We all have our own rock bottoms. I hopeyour son hits his very soon.

    Light and love!
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  9. overcome mom

    overcome mom Member

    I guess it's just semantics . If it is called neurological or a mental illness it really is the same, something in the body is off. Whether it is cause by how the neurons fire or the different amount of certain chemicals/hormones it really doesn't matter. That was somewhat my point in my original post, that it is the same as any medical illness it just effects the thought process and mental behavior. We don't call Alzheimer's a mental illness but it does effect the thought process and behavior. I think as science progresses we will find out more and more how our body works, influences how we think and act. Of course they use to think it was caused by the devil or some evil spirit.
    There is more going on with my son than ADD that is for sure, what ever label ,bipolar, personality disorder he has a very hard time dealing with life. It is so very hard to watch him struggle.
    You are right he has to find his way to deal with it and get on in the world.

    I too don't believe much of what my son tells me about jail-prison . I was the one who called the jail about the medical need and that is what the guard told me. I worked in the correctional field for a while and there is a lot of messed up things that happe when someone is incarcerated.
  10. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    Overcome mom, it was very kind and loving of you to even consider his mental illness as seriously as you are. As someone with an extensive history of bipolar myself, it is very nice to see it every once in a while.

    My 21 year old daughter also has bipolar, PTSD and some other things most likely. I'm sure you could imagine what her teenage years were like. It peeked from 12 tru 19 years old but she is doing much better now, she has come leaps and bounds, I am so proud of her but that can always change in a heartbeat just like with anything else in life. Has held her employment since she was 15 which is utterly amazing considering what she has been through and along with her mental illness as well.

    Being as though I have bipolar, her father who had severe mental problems who eventually took his own life and my mother being a manic depressive/borderline schizophrenic, made me more prepared in knowing how to handle her and believe me, the very mental health community, doctors, nurses, therapist and psychiatrist were of very little to help to us.

    And that's always the question when it comes to mental illness. How much can one be accountable for something they aquired through no fault of their own? No one asks for mental illness. We didn't get to choose this. It is something that is thrown onto our plates with no way of knowing how to deal with it, we are just expected to. We have so much stigma attached to us. It comes down to this, some people are strong enough to handle it and some are not and then you have a whole bunch of factors and personality tratis in between to determine which one you are.

    Follow your motherly instincts. I would say that he has to be held accoutable for his actions, there is no question about that, especially if he is commiting crimes. However, there are ways that you can help him with his mental illness but first, he has to want help. There is no way that you can help him without him wanting help. If he can't hold down a job because he is too sick and erratic to consistantly work, it might be the time to start thinking about applying for some sort of disability.

    You really can't help him otherwise unless he wants help. If he starts getting serious about getting help and starts making great effort to do so, then maybe you can start helping him. Just like caring for anyone we love with cancer or any other physical disease, we must care for our loved ones the same with mental illness because it is serious and it's devestating.

    Just remember. Having mental illness doesn't determine what kind of a person you are. You can be a good person with mental illness or you can be a bad person with mental illness. If he is prison for hurting people or doing very bad things, that has nothing to do with mental illness in my humble opinion because for as sick as we are, My mother, my daughter's father, my daugher and myself never harmed anyone or did anything criminal. But who am I to say really? No on really knows. I would say build boudries, don't back from them and if you see a way to help him in a good way outside of that, you can if you want to. Follow your instincts as a mother. If he does something bad, he cannot go unpunished for that.

    Is he willing at all to get help for his issues?
  11. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    I just went back and read some of your responses to the other members overcome mom and saw that you said that he only admits to ADD and nothing else. That is a serious problem. People who refuse to believe that they have a mental illness or in his case, refuses to believe he has more than one, are 100x more difficult to help. Might as well just say impossible.

    Overcome mom, that would be my big boundry with him. If he refuses to admit that he has other serious mental problems and doesn't start getting serious about gettig help for them, then I would say do not help or frankly, do not communicate him period. Start with that. I have known people like your son over the course of my lifetime. Start now with that boundry because he will never admit he has other mental illnesses. The longer he is allowed to get away with saying he doesn't have other mental illnesses besides ADD (which like you, I know is very real), the worse he will get and faster with age.

    By the way, he does not need a lawyer to apply for disability. Most lawyers won't except clients who are applying for the first time. They only take on the cases when they get denied and usually don't require a payment if they believe the client is entitled to it. They will recoup their costs when he gets his back payment.
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  12. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Thats what I meant, Wish. Nobody can get better in any bad situatuon without admitting it and going for treatment.

    I have a very mild form of bipolar, mostly all depression, so Im told (I am leery of psychiatry but not the known treatments). I spent my life in a depression until I found the right medications at about age 40. It took that long. And I had no family empathy at all. I was "bad." I dont know why... i did not do risky things, have wild sex, take drugs or drink, or break the law....but I was tortured by some in my family. Dare I say most? And called "crazy."

    The truth is few in my family were not mentally ill too. They just did not admit it. So they didnt resolve their issues. You need to be willing to admit everything,not just talk about what you feel others did to you in therapy. You need to fess up yourself. Not everyone confesses their own dysfunctional deeds. They go to therapy only for sympathy. Not all. Some.

    Parents cant fix an illness. I strongly believe all mental illsnes is biological and hereditary and not anyones fault and more and more researchers are coming to this conclusion. It is still a conflict in psychiatry.

    I also know the person who has to get the help is thr person, not the support system. I did it without one and never gave up on me. That is the hard part. YOU have to help yourself. YOU have to be the one who wo t give up on your life.

    I would never cut someone off for mental illness unless the person was mean and abusive, as in my family, and refused to admit it or get help. So I guess we are on the same page, Wish.

    Just wanted to clarify. I have lived it too as well as been villified for it and been wrongly accused as the crazy one in the family so I gave up on THEM, not me. They were sick too. Mom acted like a borderline. Im sure she at least had traits. She had anxiety and depression. Sis anorexia, life long, and depression and attachment disorder and probably a personality disorder. Just guessing except for the anorexia, which goes along with depression. I think she admitted to attachment disorder which is serious. Dad, Uncle had issues. I tried hard to help my sister but in the end she was too unpredictable and mean to me and I did decide I dont want that in my life and ended it.

    There is this stigma about mental illness that causes so many to refuse to admit it or get the proper help. And the medications do cause weight gain so try to get an anorexic to take it, you know?

    Society makes it hard to admit mental illness. But society also doesnt excuse it. So we cant either. And all we can do is hope the.loved one gets help beyond using self medication which only makes things worse.

    Light and love!
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  13. Deni D

    Deni D Active Member

    Hi Over Come Mom ~ sorry you are here but welcome. The mental health struggle had led me to rescue my son for years.

    My son was diagnosed as Bipolar when he was very young. For him, when he was young, every Spring going into the Summer he would become very irritable, mouthy and resist doing the basic things expected of him. The psychiatrist would tweak one of his two medications up just a little and he would go back to normal. I learned the hard way at that time when he became unstable I couldn’t give him a break on behaviors or it would be a longer road getting him back to acting right after the medication adjustment.

    With him as an adult it’s been a whole different ball game. Seeing the things he does to himself, the kind of lifestyle that never touched my life in the past is pretty frightening. I kept trying to keep him from having the consequences of not living responsibly by taking the hits myself. My thinking was that he had a hard time navigating life when he was younger with all of the supports in place so there’s no way he’s going to be able to get himself out of the dilemmas he’s creating for himself now. But the problem with this thinking is I was assuming he would eventually learn from the bad experiences and stop. Instead now he continues to live an irresponsible life and I am his villain because I won’t rescue him from it.

    At this point all I do is to try to point out to him how his life was so much different growing up than he claims it was and that he should go back to taking medication. He is resisting mightily currently with a lot of nasty emails and character assignation of me so who knows.

    I have a seven page medical history document that I’ve created to send to any hospital or doctor he may go to. And there is a local mental health organization he can reach out to for services. I’m not a big fan of NAMI, but that’s probably because I took the Family to Family course back when they didn’t have anything for parents of younger children. But recently I found out that local mental health organization holds the NAMI meetings there so it would seem NAMI would be a good resource to find out what might be available for help for him if he chooses to use it.

    It makes it just a little bit easier to resist the total helpless feeling and the urge to rescue by having a bit of a plan in place. I’m not holding out much hope that he will decide to actually take the long road to help himself but if he does I can support him by providing direction back to the mental health organization and provide any psychiatrist with his history.
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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  14. Snow White

    Snow White Temporarily in the Magic Kingdom

    Hi OvercomeMom - welcome. Sorry to hear you have been enduring such behavior from your son.

    I think you have received some very sage advice from some very "experienced" parents already. I believe that we all hold out that glimmer of hope - that our children will 'find their way'. Sadly, many do not.

    Our daughter will not admit to any diagnosis, unless it serves her purpose. She will vehemently deny that she needs treatment. When she was younger, her psychiatric team would classify her as having bipolar disorder (rather than the borderline personality disorder, ADHD and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) diagnoses) because it was the only diagnosis that would get services for her. Luckily, the treatment team knew of the other actual diagnoses and tried their best to work with her. She successfully fought them all off and the day she turned 18 was the day she stopped medications and started self-medicating.

    Our daughter is rarely truthful. She's been traveling the globe for 4 years and never really worked - sucks in people to give her money (including us). Created "drama situations" everywhere she went and we bought into it. Rescued her so many times. Once we cut off the rescue pipeline, it was amazing that she survived - she was able to find accommodation, food and transportation, all on her own. It's just easier if someone does it for her.

    I can't "fix" her mental illness - just like I can't "fix" my broken thyroid gland or my husband's depression. We are each responsible to take care of ourselves. My daughter knows right from wrong but still chooses the path of trouble. The day she comes forward and honestly says she is ready to enter the treatment program that has been offered to her twice, then I will be ready with open arms in support of that effort.

    Also - you and your husband have the right to have a peaceful life together. This puts a terrible strain on any relationship, including spouses, other children and extended family members. Take time for some self-care.

    Hugs to you.
  15. Triedntrue

    Triedntrue Well-Known Member

    My story is similar to many of those that have already replied and i agree with them. Prayers are with youvand all of us.
  16. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    Hi Mcdonna, I am not really familiar with your situation. No, you can't fix her nor should you really try if she flat refuses to admit she has a problem. How can you fix someone who doesn't even admit they have a problem? It's impossible. That's why I answered OP's question the way that I did because she was asking, in essence, how much she should help him and that's why I said, if one day, If he starts getting serious about getting help and starts making great effort to do so, then maybe she can start helping him.

    My daughter is 21 and has made grade efforts to take care of herself and her mental illness as best as she can. Even at her worst, she started working at 15 and still works very hard to this day. She actively seeks out therapy and goes once a week for two years now. She does yoga. Spiritual healing. Crystal healing. She gets involved in different hobbies and activities. She does this all in the name of trying to be mentally well. Words can't even describe how proud of I am of this young lady. Most people her age do not take mental illness seriously if they have one and even if they did, they don't try as hard as she does to care for it. From 12 years old to 18 years old, she was a very different person than she is now. I never gave up on her. I fought every bloody demon she had along with her and believe me, those demons were fierce. It was an absolute nightmare for her and myself those years but she did make it. She did overcome it. Something a lot of people never thought she would do which is another reason why I am so beamingly proud of this young lady.

    My being older and knowing how hard it is to live with mental illness, I do help her when I can to make her life a little easier which is not very often and she rarely ever asks me to. Is she perfect all the time? Heck no. Of course she sitll has quite a few hiccups. But as long as she is trying, I will never stop helping her so long as I can and am able to help her. I really don't help her much anyways. She pays all of her own bills. She has her own life. But yes, I do things for her once in a while without her asking to try to help her because I know how hard it is for her and again she never asks me to, I just do it on my own because I know how crucial support is for mentally ill people. As I said, mental illness is just as serious as any physical disease. Yes, is up to an individual to get themselves help? Of course. Is up to them to do it on their own if no one is willing to help. Also of course. But that doesn't mean that they should have to do it alone, when they are making such a great effort as my daughter is.I'm her family. She is mine.

    So yeah, that is all I meant. If Overcomes mom sees a great effort being made on sons part and can tell without doubt that he is just not lying to her or gaslighting her which would mean her son would have a lot to prove and a long time to prove it, she could help if she wants to or she doesn't have to at all. It's all up to her. I was just simply answering her question posted :) But even with the help, you can't fix your child or anyone else for that matter, which is why I never used the word fix. You simply cannot fix anyone.

    ::Edited for some grammar errors and some information that I forgot to add::
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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  17. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    Exactly what I said in the exact post that you quoted from me :)
  18. Snow White

    Snow White Temporarily in the Magic Kingdom

    Wish - your post is so inspiring. Your daughter sounds like an amazing young lady, who has figured out how to really take care of herself!! It is no wonder that you are so proud and willing/able to assist her in this journey. For her to do this at 21 years of age shows such maturity and foresight!

    Until she was 18 years old, we supported and were fully invested in our daughter's individual therapy, group therapy, family therapy and all of the extra-curricular activities she wanted to try. Husband, son and myself completed the DBT course but she wouldn't commit to it. We kept hoping/praying that the next session/activity would be the "thing" that would help her. As an adult she has done yoga, meditation, etc. but they have just been fads that she doesn't stick with. She's changed religions so many times. For the past few years, she will not admit to any mental health diagnosis but is quick to have every other systemic disease known to man. She blames us for everything.

    Hopefully, OvercomeMom can figure out her son's pattern of behaviour (when he is lying/gaslighting) and assist him to get the help he wants/needs. I'm still waiting for that day myself. It's hard to know when to jump in or when to back away - some of our children are very adept at promises but fail at delivery.
  19. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I did a lot to help myself too but i used the medical community. There was nothing else then. I laud whatever works. Kudos to an amazing daughter, Wish. She is brave, strong and smart, like her mother.

    McDonna, sadly your daughter has been at this much longer and may never admit illness (doubt anyone can really devinitively diagnose her...she has complicated behaviors) BUT she can change the way she behaves IF she is VERY motivated. I think first this newest blip in your life with her has to play out and you need to see if her strange story is true. If not....she is not ready.

    I have always felt, and still do, as a mental health advocate, that the earlier somebody with challenges reaches for help with sincerity and eillingness to try, the more successful the person will be in the big picture. The longer bad behaviors persist, the harder they are to change. And the more one has to wonder if the person WANTS to do better.

    This is where Wish's daughter is inspirational and I feel will end up living a good life, making good decisions, being healthy. As Wish has done.

    Wish, I have helped all my adult kids, even those who were doing well, because that is what I feel a mother should do and what I want to do. Ironically I only wont help if a child goes wrong and, as you brought up, wont admit it or get help. You think like a loving mom, Wish :)

    Every situation varies and sometimes there are surprises. I hope and pray to the universe and ourhigh power for all of our adult kids to wake up and try to do their very best, whatever that is.

    I send light and love!
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  20. overcome mom

    overcome mom Member

    Thank you for all the sage advice. I just spoke to my son's wife ( she got out from being locked up) to hear what she would say. I have a pretty good BS detector. She has lied in the past so I take everything with skepticism. I asked her if he was using and she said yes. Asked why he has lost the last 7 jobs and she said for the most part that he was never on time and was very unorganized. The way she described the night they went to jail it sounded like he was out of control. She didn't take much responsibility. What I got out of talking with her is that I am glad I did not bail him out. Hopefully he can dry out and come to a little bit of a realization. He had stopped using before but like most people with drug addictions started up again when stress got to much. I have talked with my husband about getting a whole house security system because I have a feeling when he gets out he will try and come home and it will turn bad when he doesn't get the money he wants. He has broken in and stolen from us about 6-7 years ago. He becomes very aggressive when he feels cornered. I try to placate him for the moment but his Dad feels he needs to stand his ground and will not back down. I would rather just get him out of here and then do something to prevent his return than to have things turn violent. I know he will feel he has lost everything so he will come after me. I hate feeling scared. Just trying to hold strong, this forum has helped. It does help to hear about people's whose children have turned the corner. Hope is always a good thing.