I made difficult child the way he is

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Kjs, Mar 15, 2009.

  1. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    That was just one of the wonderful things my older son said to me. I have a hard time with calling him easy child at this time.

    Friday I was sharing with him the diagnosis's the therapist told me as well as some other things therapist said.

    Son - he doesn't believe in immunizations or medications. Says that is why kids are so sick because they all take so many drugs. Anyway fast forward to Friday. Son tells me there is no such thing as "Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD)" or "ADHD" or any of those things. Because HE can't SEE it. AND it is just a "cop out" for dealing with the world. AND I MADE difficult child the way he is. Because I yell and scream at him (homework ends up like this), because difficult child always got/gets to do whatever he wanted/wants, because I talk to teachers and school, because he goes to this school and he should have to go to the district school like easy child had to. He said I shouldn't be speaking to school. no phone calls, no visits and no emails. I tried to explain that they EMAIL me. Son told me to ignore it and delete it. Not to read it.

    Regardless of the many reasons older son listed, Bottom line is I made difficult child the way he is. There is nothing wrong with him, only that I raised him wrong. He(easy child) wasn't raised that way.

    I told him I TRY. If he knows of a way to "make" difficult child do something LET ME KNOW.

    He said husband talks to him. (that's nice, he doesn't talk to me) He said I wasn't always like this. WHAT is it I want. That I am all alone dealing with school, bills, doctors..etc not to mention work. And again nobody gets it. That when they are asleep I AM NOT. If you want to meet with me How about between 1 - 3am? I'll take my lunch. He said he has only $9, how can HE help. I told him it doesn't cost any money to pick up your clothes and garbage off the floor, load/unload dishwasher, help around the house. He told me he WILL NOT work 3rd shift. Like I LIKE my hours. I told him sometimes you do what you have to do.

    This conversation turned nasty. Older son told me I "F'd up his life". One example was when he was in middle school something had happened and I told him I would die if anything ever happened to him. THAT "f'd him up" He said he was afraid to do anything because he was afraid if he did I would die. I told him I was just letting him know how much he meant to me. So, he went on with many more examples of how I "F'd up his life" and I "F'd up difficult child's life". I am a horrible mother and pretty much failed.

    I went to my room and hid under my covers and just cried. He opened the door several times to add more to his failure list. I thought when husband got home from work he would come in and see why I was in there. He never opened the door. Never checked on me. Never asked why I was in bed at 3:30pm on a non work day. Never asked what the doctors said. Older son and him talked, so I am sure older son has a different story.

    Older son's girlfriend broke up with him this past week. I DO understand the hurt. I understand the frustration and not having a job and self esteem. I really do. He would never think so though.

    But I am his mother. I did the best I can. Apparently I am even more of a failure than I can describe. I am so hurt and so depressed. The people in my life that I would do anything for, my kids. And I am who "f'd up their life".

    I have to stay in my room. He is in the living room. All I can think of is...well I can't even think. I failed at the most important job in my life. Only I didn't realize it. I worked so hard at it. And I caused so much pain for everyone. I now have to live the rest of my life knowing what I did to my kids. The pain is unbearable.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    You know what? Grown kids can be brutal, even when they love us, and they can blame us for everything wrong in this world. Try not to feel too bad. I tend to say, "I'm not perfect and I'm sure I made tons of mistakes. But I loved you all and I did the best I knew how." I wouldn't have gone that far with the conversation once it turned abusive. Your son was just upset by other things and was taking it out on you. (((Hugs)))
  3. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    You need to stop letting them have so much power over you. I am sorry you are going through this, and they are being cruel, there is no doubt in my mind about that. I wish I had a magical answer. I wish I did. Sometimes you cannot change others, you have to work on yourself. If you do what you always did you get what you always got.

    Are you still seeing a therapist? Ask them how to deal with the constant negativity. I hope you still are. Please try to take care of yourself.
  4. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Oh Kjs,
    I'm sorry you are in so much pain. You have not failed. Your easy child (using that term loosely) seems to not want to take any responsibility for his life-it's much easier for him to blame you. Just because he is handing out blame doesn't mean you have to accept it. Easier for me to say than do, but I think I would be tempted to tell him, if he is that unhappy he needs to leave.

    I agree with crazymama about asking your therapist how to deal with the constant negativity. I know I sometimes take the things my kids say personally. It is something I'm working on and getting better at. I'm sorry your easy child was so hurtful, you don't deserve to be treated this way.
  5. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    I agree with Crazymama30 and Wiped Out that you need to talk to your therapist about how to deal with all of the negativity coming your way.

    You know the expression, When you find yourself in a deep hole, the first thing you need to do is stop digging. You need to take that attitude when dealing with your H, and your 2 sons.

    If someone is cruel and abusive toward you, and you crawl back to them and say "please love me, why don't you love me?" It teaches them that they can treat you horribly, and that you will put up with it and never leave. They will never change their behaviour toward you until you change your behaviour toward yourself.

    You need to stop trying to pull affection from them. Walk away from them, even if it's only for an hour to catch your breath. When they see that they can't treat you that way without consequences, then they WILL change the way they treat you.

    The key is: don't beg for their love. It gives them an excuse to withhold it and treat you with contempt. That's unacceptable. You do not deserve to be treated that way, and the only way it's going to change is if you refuse to continue being treated that way.

    Yelling won't work. Telling them how much you hurt won't work. Begging them to be nicer to you won't work. The only thing that will work is to stop letting them get away with it. The next time your son starts in, calmly say, "I will not allow you to treat me with disrespect" and then leave. If he follows, leave the house, get in your car and drive away.

    Let them fend for themselves. You need to fend for you.

    Kjs, it tears me up to see them treating you this way. But the only thing you have control over in the situation is your reaction to it. What you've been doing so far hasn't worked. So you need to change what you're doing.

  6. everywoman

    everywoman Active Member

    While I am sorry that he treated you this way, and I don't believe you are responsible for ruining his life or difficult child's life, I do agree with one thing---you have failed. But the only person you have failed is yourself. You have failed to make them treat you like you deserve to be treated. Quit relying on them for your self-worth. You are worthy because you are human, you have tried to do the best you could do. Take a look. What advice would you give a friend in the same situation? Make a list of what thing you would tell them and then follow it. It is time to implement do to get in your home for everyone there, including husband. Do this before you allow them to damage you anymore.
  7. ML

    ML Guest

    I think it's a rite of passage thing. The young people of today are putting off taking responsibility for their life. You may mention to him that to the extent he can forgive you for not being "perfect" will likely be the extent his own kids will forgive him some day. Say "son, I'm sorry for not doing some things right and I feel terrible that it has caused you so much pain. If it helps, go ahead and blame me for making you what you are today, and from this point on you can take responsibility for what you become" I'm sorry you are feeling so bad. You are a GOOD ENOUGH mother. You love your kids and you show up, always doing your best. That all any of us can do. Hugs,ML
    Lasted edited by : Mar 15, 2009
  8. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    KJS, I don't know - all of that drama would make me crazy. NO one there has any communication skills it seems, including you. And this is said with much kindness towards you and not to be taken harshly. Months and months and months and really nothing has changed with the way anyone acts.

    If you keep thinking the boys will respond kindly because you are upset and crying, and hubby will come to check on you to see why you are crying and in bed, its not going to happen as its become a response with you and they way they respond to you.

    I understand you are upset and angry, and rightly so, as you have all of this responsibility you have taken on of being, really, head of household instead of your hubby stepping up to the plate and sharing that role, and none of them are appreciative and acknowledge the fact that you are responsible for everything that happens in your house running on an even keel, and now easy child has moved in, and your load you have taken on is even more somehow.

    You really really really need to go to therapy - alone - forget about everyone else going. Everyone seems to have a Pavlov's dog response and you need to break the cycle as no one else is interested in doing that. YOU have got to change the way YOU respond.

    As far as easy child goes, yeah, life is tough, you don't have a job, you don't have a girlfriend, and you are such an easy target for a whipping boy, being all understanding of his situation. You are such a bad parent, blah blah blah. Really, that is BS. You are the mom, you are in charge, he should have NO imput during a heated arguement or otherwise as to younger difficult child. Your anger bubbles over once again and all of the same stuff is brought up about school, emails from the teacher, having to work in the middle of the night and how you have to hold everything together. And it always ends up the same way, you in tears. feeling bad about yourself, totally depressed and beaten down. Stop already - you know you are a good mom - no one is the perfect mom exept June Cleaver, and she wasn't a real person anyway.

    I am so sorry you are in such emotional pain and I hope you find the means to change your life

  9. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader


    I don't think there is a person on this Blessed Earth who could beat you up more than you beat yourself up. Or me. I think I failed on a daily basis. But then I try to think of what so many others here have said in many ways: I did the best I could with what I knew and had to work with; I wasn't perfect but I was very good.

    We can only do the best job as a parent that we're capable of at any given moment. That means that as we grow as individuals and our perspectives change and mature, we change the way we parent. But the underlying love and affection we have for our children doesn't ever go away.

    Despite the mean things your easy child son said to you and despite the rotten ways in which H and difficult child treat you, you can still love them without allowing them to treat you in those ways. You can still stand up for yourself. I agree that your counselor can and will help you in this. Finding a way to be yourself, do your part (without always doing more than you're responsible for), and going to bed with a heart at peace; knowing you've done the best you could that day? Now, THAT is something I think we all strive for.

    I'm sorry that your head is buried under the covers and that you cannot find comfort in your own home. That's not fair. Please address this ALONE with your therapist and focus solely on healing yourself. Let all the BS with H and easy child and difficult child go for a time and just focus on YOU. I, too, have started on this same path and I have to say, wow, I feel so much lighter and happier each time I proclaim and moment, an hour, or a day mine and mine alone - and let everyone else figure things out for themselves. Every time I feel myself becoming anxious worrying about difficult child, easy child or my marriage, I remind myself that it is NOT all up to me. I am not the fixer of all things, no one is. All [we] can be in control of is ourselves and that is a very freeing feeling. I hope you get there.

    I know you've svcked up a lot lately, but try to buck up once more and get out of your bed and room and go claim your stake in that home of yours. Go bake or get dressed and go for a nice walk in the woods; do something that makes ONLY you happy. And ignore them all. It breaks my heart that they are all ganging up on you and putting you in a room all by yourself. I hope you find the strength to change that. Hugs~
  10. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    You have gotten some very good advice here and I agree that you need to stop getting down on yourself and hiding under the covers in a closed room when you are attacked like this. Stand up tall and tell them in no uncertain terms that they cannot talk to you in that manner. Say that they are free to leave at anytime. Then remove yourself from them. Don't hide, just leave and do something that makes you feel good. A walk, a hobbie, a drive, a movie, a trip to the library where you can read a magazine or book or go online and learn something new. Do anything that will take you away from the negativity and make you feel good about yourself. -RM
  11. standswithcourage

    standswithcourage New Member

    Well from what I have learned is Yes you are good enough - yes you loved your children, raised them the best you could, taught them right from wrong and then it is their choices - you have to believe in yourself that you are a woinderful mother. You have to stand up for yourself - you have been through more than they have at this point - put on your suit of armour and respect yourself more. You are worthy of their respect. Love yourself more. thats my two cents.
  12. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Kjs, you stop thinking that way right this minute! DO NOT accept the blame for things that you have NOT done!

    Honestly, I could have written the exact same things about 15 years ago when my kids were growing up! I spent twenty years in a verbally abusive marriage to an alcoholic. Even though I was the one with all the responsibilities, I was always the target. Everything was always MY fault! I was the object of every disrespectful remark he could come up with, every filthy name he could think of to call me. He was a drunk, he was abusive, he cheated on me and he spent every dime we had, but all our problems with the marriage and the family were MY fault. If I would just straighten up, everything would be fine! It got to the point where it was like verbal 'smackdowns' and I would end up just like you, in bed in the middle of the day, crying myself sick, trying to figure out what I had done wrong. Never could figure it out, it didn't make sense. It's hard to understand now, but after hearing that for so many years, I really believed all that B.S.! I would agonize over it, trying and trying to figure out what it was that I was doing that was so very wrong to deserve to be treated like that! Why other women were treated with love and respect by their families and I wasn't deserving of the same thing. I thought I was 'different' from other women. Never had a lot of self-esteem anyway and he stomped all over what was left. Trashing your self-esteem and sense of worth is a tactic they use - to keep you down so you're more 'controllable'. He also made it very clear that they would all be better off without me! And when he'd tell me these terrible things, he'd put it like he was speaking for the two kids too, like they felt the same way! I honestly thought they'd be better off with me gone and had lots and lots of suicidal thoughts, but way deep down I knew that my kids needed me, even if they didn't act like it then. I was the only real stability they had.

    And Lord only knows what he told the kids! They grew up seeing him treat me that way and they knew no different. My daughter was the worst. She saw him as 'all-powerful' and me as 'weak', so no big surprise which one she'd side with. And she didn't want him going off on her like he did on me. He kind of 'cultivated' her, trying to use her against me, like they were a team. She'd side with him, no matter what! Nothing I did was ever right, everything was my fault, but every excuse in the book for him! Pretty soon, some of the same things were coming out of her mouth, always aimed at me! And as bad as it was coming from him, nothing ever hurt me more than hearing those horrible things coming from her! My son is five years younger and he never really bought in to it, never joined the "I Hate Mama" club. But he was so intimidated by his father that he learned to just keep his mouth shut and stay out of the way. I was strictly a 'single parent' to him.

    Thank God, the ex finally left when my daughter was 20 and my son was 15. Should have happened years sooner and we all would have been better off! The peace and quiet in our house was deafening! And we started to heal. And I joined a domestic violence group as a volunteer and I started, for the very first time, to see our situation for what it really was! The verbal abuse can be much more damaging than physical abuse. It takes years and years to heal. And honey, YOU are in a verbally abusive marriage if there ever was one! It is good that you go to a therapist, but I strongly urge you to speak with a domestic violence counselor - it's a very eye-opening experience.

    And now - my son and I are fine - always have been. He's healing too. And with my daughter, it has taken years to rebuild our relationship, but we've finally done it! Now she herself has a wonderful marriage and she sees it now from the maturity and perspective of an adult and knows how destructive our home situation was. Neither one has anything to do with their father, they learned his true colors, and haven't even had contact with him in over a year. He doesn't even know he will be a grandfather in a few months ... his loss. And I was the one that got the phone call that she met a wonderful guy, I got the excited phone call that he proposed, and I was the one who got the phone call that she was finally pregnant after four years of trying, and another that it was a little boy! We reap what we sow. Please, PLEASE find a domestic violence counselor and speak with them. It could make all the difference in the world to you!
  13. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts


    I didn't read all the replies ..... so forgive me if I'm being repetitive.

    I hear statements like this on a regular basis from kt &/or wm. Gets old - tiresome. The people here who know me well know my response "thank you for sharing your feelings" "appreciate knowing that" or "is that (blaming someone else usually) working for you?"

    It tends to stop my children in their tracks - generally because I walk away after that. As mom, I don't have to explain my actions to my children. I don't have to explain the decisions I've made on their behalf when they are unstable or unreasonable, nor is it any of their business the details of my finances, marriage, job, health,etc.... I do not crave my children's approval nor friendship. I'm the mom, "the bad guy", it's in the manual someplace.

    I remember blaming MY mom for everything wrong in my life because of my baby sister's terminal illness. Reasonable - not even close. My mother never responded to my statements or comments & that made me angrier; it also made me think. I had to look at things from her end & I became empathetic.

    Do I expect that from the tweedles - no. Can you expect that from your children - not for a long while. It seems easy child has some growing up & acceptance of things that can't be changed to do. It's not his place to make comments of this sort regarding YOUR child. And he can share comments about his own life - you just don't have to listen.

    As a mom, you've done the best you know how. I cannot remember all the details of your family dynamic but I do know dealing with a difficult child is somewhat destructive to a healthy family dynamic.

    Blow easy child off til he's ready to grow up & accept his life. If it bites to be him, he needs to change it. You can apologize (if you choose) to this adult/child until you're blue in the face & it will never be enough.

  14. skeeter

    skeeter New Member

    KJS - ok. You **** as a parent (I don't think this for a minute, but play along with me here).

    So, your easy child son is an adult. What does HE plan to do about it now? Even if you **** as a parent (again, I don't think you do), HE has to take the initiative to either better his life, or continue to live in "suckiness".

    And unless his name is on guardianship papers for difficult child, sorry, HE has nothing to say about the matter.

    KJS, in all seriousness, you have to get yourself out of this situation or you are going to kill yourself (either by your health continuing to decline, your mental state, what have you). Then what good will you be to anyone?

    Do you have any time to read? If you pm me your address, I'll send you my copy of "Co-Dependant No More". While it mainly deals with alcoholism, it also deals with WHY people let themselves live in these situations. You need to find something to empower YOU. And honestly, your family can go hang themselves.
  15. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    I'm a little confused. Did your 26 year old accuse you of messing up his life and that of your son's? Excuse me. If this is the case, then what is wrong with this picture? First of all, what is going in his life right this second? How productive is he? Is he living in your home? Is he working? You might consider going to the PE Forum. I posted about a book I saw...great stuff for parents of older "children."

    More questions to ponder: Did he get his health taken care of when he was a child? Did he get an education? Did he get fed? Why is he overly concerned about things you may or may not have done in the past? Is this not ancient history? Is he not over the age of 18? Indeed, is he not over the age of 21? Would he like to blame you for everything that goes wrong in his life from now until his old age? Can you get credit for things that go right? When will it end? How about years ago.

    As for your other son...well, ADHD really does exist. WE know that certain medications, vitamins and behavioral therapies are helpful. If your older son doesn't like it...well that's unfortunate.

    If you did something you wish you did not do at some point, you might apologize. But that's about it. Surely, you did many good things too. It's not all black and white. It sounds like your son is only remembering what he wishes to remember. Some baggage that serves him. Why? Not sure. Perhaps because he doesn't wish to go forward in his life for whatever reason. IT is easier to blame mom then to do what he needs to do.

    Listen....you don't need to be the doormat. You don't need to live your life in a bedroom. You don't need to be the recipient of someone elses GARBAGE. You are hiding in shame, over what? Do you think your son is innocent of all wrong doing? Do you think other moms are perfect and have no concerns?

    Wipe the dirt that your son has thrown on you OFF. Understand that everyone messes up at times...so be it. Refuse to question your decisions re: your other son. You are the adult and the mother. He is acting like a child. You can listen to another person's viewpoint...but you don't have to be the recipient of someone's advice when they are being childish, meanspirited and make you feel badly about yourself.

    It's a little weird when that person is your own son...but so be it. Actually...it'll be a lesson for the guy. It's the motherly thing to do.
    It ain't nice being a bully and it backfires on the one doing the bullying anyway...he is hiding like a child.

    Clean your mind from this GARBAGE. Understand that your easy child has his own issues. You can not create ADHD. YOu can only help your younger son grow up to be an independent, capable, productive and happy individual.

    When you poison your mind with this garbage...it leads to less productivity...poor choicess...little or no action...really messes things up. You wont be able to do as much. You wont be able to be as happy. It all starts with thoughts that are not right. Don't let your son put garage in there.

    You are entitled to happiness. I read quickly..but I believe I read where you are going to a therapist. Does he or she know about this stuff going on? Additionally, if your husband doesn't wish to be more communicative or helpful...would he consider couples counseling? Does your therapist know of someone you could go to?

    by the way...love the other posters idea about readinag Co Dependent No More. I would get this book and get it soon!

    Know that you are a good mother and can walk around in any #$@! room in the house that you want to!

    Honestly, if you put your foot down, refuse to let easy child sling #$@! into your brain and do the footwork surely you are willing to do...my guess is that you will feel ALOT better!!!! Wishing you well.
    Lasted edited by : Mar 15, 2009
  16. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so sorry. I know this hurt you very badly.

    I honestly and truly think you need to get yourself to the local domestic violence center. I know this particular relationship you are in is not physically violent, and that you went through therapy in the past for a physically violent relationship you were in.

    But honey, this relationship IS violent. IT is emotionally and spiritually violent in the way that ONLY the people we have opened ourselves up to can be to us.

    Each of the men in your life seems to get something out of verbally and emotionally abusing you, out of seeing that you are curled up in tears hiding away. Somewhere, deep inside, YOU seem to feel you deserve this. Otherwise you would have left the situation or insisted that they ALL go to therapy with you to move past this.

    It honestly seems that the ONLY time your men communicate in a positive way with you is after you have made a "grand gesture" like the trip that used up the last of your inheritance. I know it gave you great pleasure to send them on the trip. I know things seemed better when they got back. But did they STAY better?

    Print off this thread and take it to your therapist. Ask his or her opinion.

    This behavior is just not going to stop on its own. It will ONLY stop when YOU stop tolerating it. They are controlling you by abusing you. PLEASE find a way out of this situation.
  17. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Ahhh, he broke up with his girlfriend and took it out on you.
    How mature of him.

    I am so sorry you let him get to you like that.

    I agree with-Nomad: you are entitled to happiness. Tell your therapist, who should help you create an invisible wall between you and negative people. Everything they say should bounce off of you.

    And I agree with-Skeeter and all, that you need to get yourself to a good place, physically and emotionally, where you have space to be yourself, just by yourself. Read good books. Take yourself out for pizza or whatever you like.
    It is not a treat. It is an imperative.
  18. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    Just doubled checked and saw your posts on the PE forum...some familiar things going on here. Do you think that you could actively learn how to make things better in your home? What about any steps you could take to make it better?

    I do hope that your therapist knows how you feel. And by the way...are you going ALONE?
    I mean one on one counseling...for YOU!
    I do hope that you will also consider couples counseling. Separately. Not with the same counselor.

    Additionally...what about reading up on things you might be able to do? YOu might even ask your therapist for book titles.

    The book on the PE Forum I mentioned was:
    Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children. Author: Allison Bottke
    Someone else mentioned:
    Don't let your Kids Kill You.

    I would suggest purchasing one of these books right away. Do you have an account at amazon?

    Additionally, I would think about getting Co Dependent No More right away as well.

    Re-read what the posters here wrote. TONS of wisdom here! YOu have friends who care about you and KNOW what they are talking about. How lucky you are to have this. Please don't miss out on such good fortune. Read these posts and think about them long and hard. Take them to heart.

    Wishing you well.
    Lasted edited by : Mar 15, 2009
  19. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    Are you sure older son isn't just a late blooming difficult child?:mad:

    That said, easy child lit into me once when she was extremely frustrated with Travis and her Dad. She said similar things. And it cut thru my heart like a knife. She was not long out of hs and at that age where they think they've got all the answers.

    But while it hurt, I refused to take it to heart because I knew she was wrong. Her perception of the situation was wrong due to many things, immaturity and inexperience being a huge factor.

    I think what bothers me most when I read your posts is that husband, older son, and difficult child seem to think it's open season on you. There is something extremely wrong with this picture. And as if that isn't bad enough.....they have you feeling like a failure when you're the one doing all the work!

    kjs........how can you be a failure when you're the one holding up their world for them??

    Sweetie, it hurts me to see you being so devistated by the ones you love. :(

    If I were in your position, I'd tell them all to enjoy their misery and walk out the door. To heck with the house, and with taking their daily abuse. Because sweetie, that's what it is. Emotional and mental abuse can be as damaging (or more so) as physical abuse.

    They have no respect for you because you've lost respect for yourself. They've beaten you down to the point where you're really beginning to believe this carp their spilling out of their mouths. You deserve better. And if they're not going to change, then you need to make the change.

  20. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Sometimes, there comes a time when you have to abandon the lifeboat of how it used to be and swim for shore. I've started over, pretty much with nothing, three times. A relationship WILL NOT WORK if only one person is working at it. You ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE for the misery of the entire western hemisphere. You are overworked, very tired, and teetering on the edge. I recognize the signs all too well. You're getting beaten up on a daily basis, and words hurt longer than broken bones. Words wear you down and keep you down longer than any physical illness can. Take one step, make one small change, today for Kjs, just because you are valuable, and you deserve wonderful things.

    Sending many hugs and lots of love. Pull on that cute little striped life preserver and hop out of this boat.