Irritated with oldest

[DammitJanet]

I have really started to become more and more irritated with my oldest son. He has lived with us since my mom came back to live with us and really has only worked consistently for the last 3 or so years. Maybe slightly more. All of it at Radio Shack. He had a short job at Kmart for a few months in layaway but that only last for the Xmas season. He did live with Jamie for about 9 months and he worked at a convenience store up there too but since he has been with us since 2001, he has only worked for maybe, lets give him 4 years at most. Of those 4 years, half of them have been part time. Until he bought his car two years ago, I had to drive him everywhere he went. He went to community college twice. Once for a 2 year degree and once for a 9 month certificate.

Once he started working we asked him for 100 bucks a month. Plus we asked him always to help around the house. He has pretty much paid the money but the help around the house is mostly non existent or done with neglect. He just doesnt care. If I tell him to do the kitchen, he will wash a few dishes and thats it. I have tried lists and that doesnt work. He refuses to even take out the trash. We dont get trash pick up so we have to take it out to the woods to burn it or he could actually take a bag with him to his store and throw it in the dumpster there. It wouldnt be a big problem for him.

Another huge issue is that now that we switched from dishnetwork to cable, he was supposed to pick up the difference in price because he wanted it for the internet. well that difference was about 65 bucks but he just decided he would pay 150 a month towards the power bill instead. I didnt say anything and let it go. But we buy all the food, all the household products, all the soap, laundry detergent...etc.

If Tony and I go out to pick up fast food for dinner we bring him home a plate. We are good to him.

The other night, he called me to ask what we were doing for dinner. I told him Tony and I had gone to town to pick up a car seat and some other stuff and picked up something while out so he needed to get something for himself. Now we had eaten a bit earlier so I asked him where he was going...he was still in the town where he works. He was hemming and hawing. I said why dont you go to Cook Out and get me a milk shake. Nope...he didnt want to go there. Ok...then I heard him at a drive thru ordering something. I asked him where he was and he said Arby's...I said hey get me one of those chocolate croissants. He said it was too late he had already ordered. Now look, you can always add to your order we all know that. THEN HE SAID...besides, I cant afford to spend extra money.

Ok folks...that ticked me off. What I asked for costs a dollar! He does nothing around the house and we buy his food and he cant buy me something that costs a dollar. Well no more. Im not bringing him food home anymore. He whines about how he has to save his money to buy his food at work...well he better save his money to buy all his food. Just how much food does he eat at work? His only bills are the 150 here and his car insurance and a 30 buck cell phone bill. He brings home roughly 1400 a month.

He needs to move out. Supposedly he is waiting for this girlfriend to get her divorce. I cant wait. Right now he is moaning and groaning about how he is so stressed about working at this job. If he quits it I will die.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

I understand completely where you are coming from! Can you imagine what it will be like when you finally have an empty nest???

Could he find a roomate? I have looked at places for rent for difficult child and coulnd't believe the amount of people renting rooms or looking for roomates...if only she could find a job....

 

[elizabrary]

I'm in the same situation you are. In fact, I'm about to post all my frustrations out. If it makes you feel any better the dollar comment you made had me laughing. I can so feel where you are coming from. I just wrote my daughter a note telling her she had to have proof in the next two weeks that she is searching for affordable housing. I won't kick her out, but she needs to go TODAY! They are idiots!

 

[KTMom91]

I hear you, Janet. Miss KT has gotten marginally better this summer (she'll actually pick up a gallon of milk or some TP and not want every penny back), but last summer...OMG.

 

[HaoZi]

Buy food at work? Tell him to pack a lunch.

 

[DammitJanet]

OMG...pack a lunch? That would mean MY food!

Maybe I should explain that this is the aspie kid my mother mostly raised on microwave food. He has only in the last few years learned to follow the directions on the back of boxed mixes. He can make things like hamburger helper but it comes out a mushy mess that I really dont care to eat. He will attempt to fix a dinner but I swear he messes it up intentionally so we wont ask him to do it again. Bake chicken? He puts plain chicken breasts in the oven with nothing on them and then takes them out and wonders why we complain! He can live on oodles of noodles, ravioli, pbj, ice cream, and anything take out. Oh...and pizza rolls and hot pockets. He buys pizza rolls and hot pockets by the cases and complains mightily if anyone eats a one.

Before I had all my back teeth removed I loved rocky road ice cream and I would get a half gallon of that for me. I always bought ice cream for everyone else too. trust me, Im not cheap and dont just buy for me. It never failed that I would save my ice cream for a special time when I really wanted it and when I went in there I would find maybe one dish left. He had eaten the rest of the carton! We know its him. Even one time after I found out I couldnt eat the rocky road I got me a little pint of the ben and jerry's Phish Food because it has no nuts in it...its expensive! He ate half of that! Talk about ticked off.

Supposedly his district manager is supposed to be trying to get him transferred back to the local store so he will have "less stress". Ugh. if that happens maybe I can convince him to get a room somewhere until he can move to his girlfriend. If he cant get to the local store I am going to suggest he move to where the store he is at now is located. I cant take this junk much longer.

 

[DDD]

I, too, understand your frustration. It is so strange to feel like you are abused by your kid but then again you know in your gut that he's not "all there". If it would help to slap them silly I'd go for it. Alas, the "weakness of character" is the biggest hurdle. Coping is not easy. Sending hugs. DDD

 

[susiestar]

Janet, it is time to sit that boy down and introduce him to a BUDGET. WHere he has envelopes and has to put his $$ into envelopes for the bills and then he can get spending money. You do him NO services by letting him pay $150 a month for room, utilities, internet, satellite tv, and food. When you figure a reasonable budget, living expenses (home or apartment plus bills for water/power/electric/trash/home or renter's insurance) are supposed to be 28% of your income. That is $392 out of $1400. Getting all that he does for $150 means he is spending 10.7% of his income. Not only is this putting a strain on YOUR finances, it is NOT doing what a parent is supposed to do. Parents are supposed to prepare kids for the real world. HOW is he going to adjust to an apt with his girlfriend if he thinks he can get away with spending only 11% of his income on bills, then whatever amount for car and gas and car insurance, and have the rest put aside for him to spend on nothing useful?

I would tell him that the economy is hard on all of you. As he can no longer even get something for $1 for you, and he is not doing his chores, he has X amt of time to leave or on his next payday you will sit down with his ENTIRE paycheck and do a budget. Period. This means you get a budget form (they are online for free if you just google) and you and he sit down and do the math. He won't like it. But that is not your problem.

At 29, soon to be living with a woman, he needs that push to be a man. Cause right now he is a teenager - at least in his actions. As long as you allow him to not pull his own weight, you are inhibiting his growth. By telling him to start pulling his weight you are telling him you know he CAN and that he is now a MAN.

I am sorry it is so dang hard to get them to grow up!

 

[PatriotsGirl]

I use Excel for my budget. I have it in a single column, with the dates of money coming in and going out and I have subtotals showing what is left. It is easy to do and helped me a TON. I couldn't live with out it now!

 

[HaoZi]

Yep, he can make himself a food budget and pack a lunch. PB&J isn't difficult, Kiddo can make that. Might not be his Arby's or microwave stuff (which he could still have at work in most places), but he could do it. Then he wouldn't have to budget so much for his lunches and the extra gas to go get it.

 

[lovemysons]

Janet,
I too understand the resentment! Can vividly remember walking into the house with a McDonalds bag and seeing the daughter in law had cooked chicken fried steak...which of course meant I got to wake up to the mess the next morning, do all the dishes pots and pans after everyone.
I made one comment that "Oh, looks like you made enough food for EVERYONE tonight"...daughter in law says, "NO, it's just enough for OUR family You guys don't always cook for us." (ARE YOU KIDDING ME)

OMG Janet...I went balistic, seriously, I threw the Mcdonalds bag I had in my hands ACROSS the room and told them "That's it, You all need to get the H out of my house."
They were out of our house within a week after this incident.

I know the incident must have shocked everyone...but the resentment of getting up every morning and taking care of picking up after everyone the night before, doing all their dishes, half their laundry, taking care of grandbabies while daughter in law and son "slept in", etc. It had taken it's toll.

LOL that my breaking point would be "over food".
LMS

 

[Hound dog]

Well, I've been there done that with Travis.

He's doing better, thankfully, helping husband, which is a big help to me.

Food issues here are mostly gone. Used to be he could clear out my kitchen faster than I could buy it. So I stopped buying all treats and snack type food for a long time, like years. At least if I claim something is mine as in "special" (I don't do this often either) he'll leave it alone. If he asks, lots of times I'll even share my special treats with him if I have enough.

I did have to explain to him that since I'm buying all this food on sale, it doesn't mean he gets to chow down as he pleases. It's got to last us, sometimes for quite a long time. He complained that we had all the food and he wasn't allowed to eat any of it.......I told him no, he could eat, he just had to clear it with me first. I have to know what's going out of the pantry at what rate in order to replace it. That whole let's eat no stop for days on end just can not happen or we'll all go hungry. So he's done a LOT better all the way around. And sometimes I try to pick up certain things on sale with coupons he likes especially too.

I agree. Sounds like it's more than high time Billy finds his own place. And in all honesty? His girlfriend has nothing to do with him finding his own place. Her divorce could take YEARS for all you know. And while she sounds like a great girl, she could be pulling the wool over his eyes and there will be no divorce....happens everyday. He'll feed himself, if Travis can manage, I'm sure he can too. lol

 

[DDD]

it just occured to me. Maybe the reason he is driving you over the edge now is that you don't have the distractions that you have had in past years. Yes, I know it was "loving" distractions. But you had so many other things to focus on that it was just a "given" that he was a slob and didn't help out. on the other hand you had the justified pride in his job and his electronics knowledge which I don't think you had expected when he was younger. Now he is the only one living at home and therefore it would be logical that you focus more on what he is doing and not doing.

As I said before I really do understand your justified feelings. The focus on the only kid at home, however, came to me like a lighbulb moment. Hugs. DDD

 

[Hound dog]

DDD makes a very good point about him now being the only one still at home and with no other distractions his actions or lack thereof being right up close and personal.

If it were me, I'd give him his move out date. Show him how to budget and start pushing for that date.

If Travis were working or had income, that is exactly what I'd be doing.

Hugs

 

[DammitJanet]

I woke up this morning to my whipped dark chocolate mouse yogurt gone! Let me tell ya, my family room better be getting clean today or there will be heck to pay. I told him last night it had to be done today because Tony's brother is coming tomorrow and Billy is off today. I have been feeling icky for the last few days. Something is going on with me, I think my fibro has kicked over into having worse fatigue issues right now. I cannot keep my eyes open and my back is killing me. I also have to go out today to a therapy appointment and I am sure that is going to wipe me out.

When I told Billy I wanted him to clean the family room he started in on how it was his day off and he needed to take his car in to get something looked at on it. Nah...he needs to do my family room first. And I told him so.

It hasnt been that I have just been noticing this stuff since everyone else has gone, its just that I have started posting. I have been gritching at Tony for about 2 years now that it is time. Tony is so completely sure Billy is not capable of living on his own. Me? I think he will be fine. Billy is perfectly capable of maintaining his bank account and he comes and rubs in his credit score in my face right regular. I dont know that rubs in my face is the right term...maybe brags is more the word. Evidently it must be quite good because they keep sending him applications and on his one credit card they raised his limit.

 

[Hound dog]

My husband had a harder time in letting Travis become more independent too. In some ways he's far worse about it than I am. Which in my opinion is sort of weird. lol

 

[1905]

I think you're going to have to have a totally different kind of discussion with him than you normally have. To him, it's just like Charlie Brown's teacher....blah, blah, blah...he can pull any excuse out and not do anything to help, or to pay his way.

You have to show him how because of the Aspie factor. Get the paper and circle some places he can rent, that he can afford. Show him how he can afford it. My easy child spent $16 on food his first day of work, he only makes $11 an hour, he said he's never doing that again. Billy can do this, buy 1lb of sliced turkey breast, 1/2lb of cheese, lettuce, rolls...he can eat all week on $12. That'll save a lot of money.
He doesn't help you or himself, or help out with the chores, so the $5 a day agreement you had is out the window. Let him pay you what the rent really should be, or he can leave. I know it took him awhile to reach certain milestones like a steady job, and driving, but he still has to keep moving forward. You and Tony won't be around forever he has to be able to take care of himself. If he moves in with his girlfriend, he has to contribute or he'll be right back at your doorstep, she won't put up with supporting him while he spends all his money on himself. Janet, you have to be firm. You'll be doing him a huge service.

 

[Hound dog]

Actually, you could use the girlfriend as his huge motivator.

Because I didn't want Travis to turn out like his dad (an aspie), I worked hard on coaching him as far as behaviors a female is likely not to put up with as well as those she'd appreciate. His dad got his teaching from me.......and by that time he was in his mid 30's and next to impossible to teach. I had to teach with actions, not words most of the time. Do unto him as he did unto me type thing to get the message across.

There have been times in the past that because Travis snitched a special treat of mine.......that when given the chance I returned the behavior in kind. When he was upset, I explained to him that now he knew how it felt. Often with both husband and Travis this works far better than words. For many many years boundaries were not something that Travis "got".

Been a long time since he last snitched one of my treats. lol

 

[DammitJanet]

I am wondering if something is going on with the girlfriend to be honest. Seems she has a lot of excuses for things.

I got ticked yesterday because I got up and he was already gone. I left for my doctor appointment and he was gone. I came home and he was back but he claimed he had got home just before I did. He claimed that he just HAD to go get his car worked on yesterday because his wheel baring was making a noise. Now 3 weeks ago he got the other one done and if it had been that bad he would have done them both...plus I have ridden in his car and it wasnt that bad. I drove my car all the way to Cleveland on a bad baring and made it. My other one has been making noises like it wants to be changed to for at least the last year and a half but Im not gonna go run out and change it the first day I have something else someone wants me to do something. I will get around to it one day. They dont die immediately. He could have waited and done what I needed yesterday considering it was important.

Billy keeps telling me he has no money and cant afford anything.

These are his expenses as he claims.

Insurance: 75 a month
rent:150 a month
Cell phone 40 a month
gas: 40 a week
food: 50 a week

Now he claims he is only working between 32 to 38 hours a week but I swear he is gone more than that so I dont know where else he is...but maybe that is because it takes him 20 minutes to get to work. Sometimes he does work more than 40 hours though and gets 45 hours too.

So...lets average him at 40 hours at an average of $9 hour. He does make commissions too but we wont even add them in. That is 720 gross every other week. Probably 600 take home or slightly less. So his bills are $625 or about one paycheck. ohhh...yeah...he does have a credit card but he paid them off a few months ago but recently put his car repairs back on it. He has over 2 grand in the bank. Right now he desperately wants to get a new computer. I think that is why he is so irritable about paying things.

So he knows how to save. He just doesnt know how to do anything in the house. He could walk by anything inside the house and simply not notice it or lift a finger. When we left for VA, we came home to an entire kitchen full of dirty dishes. One would think a person would clean up simply because they live here. Not him.

 

[1905]

Ok then, he can afford for you to double his rent. If he wants to lower that amount he can work it off. He knows how to clean, he's lazy. He never has had to do it so far, all his excuses work, so he won't do it....unless a new sheriff comes to town. You're the new sheriff. I know it's probably going to be hard, because he's 29, but you shouldn't be frustrated at your dirty dishes, and living room. It's stressful waiting for him to do it, and nagging is stressful, who wants to do that? If he wants to save his money, great. But he can afford to buy his mom a $1 snack. And if not, well.......why should you respect his wishes by "letting him" only pay $37 a week when he is not kind to you? He can't be good to you? He's doing those darn dishes! I'm sending you a cyber sheriff star...