Its not good...

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by toughlovin, Apr 9, 2011.

  1. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Sigh.... I guess it is good they don't allow swearing on this board or you would all be getting an earful!! I got a call from the sober house this morning... took me out of my weight watchers meeting. Anyway they have a bunch of new residents so they did a top to bottom cleaning of the house. Under my sons mattress they found rolling papers and visine. Definitely not a good sign. He also has been having an attitude and got mad at a relapse prevention meeting and walked out of the meeting and the house!!!! So they are done. They are giving him and us until Monday to figure out what to do.

    I told them he cannot come home. I can't do that to my daughter or to us. That if he wants to do what he wants then he needs to figure out how to do that. If he wants to find another sober house he can do that. We will only support him financially if he is doing stuff to make progress. They did say they can take him to this shelter, I think it is a homeless shelter. I told him they might want to plan on doing that. If he wants to come back here we may give him his mileage so he can get a free ticket but that is it. He needs to make a plan and do it, we are not coming into rescue him.

    I am so angry and so frustrated. Nancy I keep thinking of you and what you have been through.. .our difficult children sound so similar. They don't think he has been smoking pot because he is passing the drug tests. They think he has been using Spice which is an incense that gives pot like effects but is chemical and probably more dangerous. But we need to let him go and fall and fail and if he ends up in jail so be it. I can not help him if he does not want to help himself.

    Gosh think of us, give me strength to stay strong and give my husband strength for him to stay on the same page as me. I am really clear he can't come home and will stay with that for the sake of my daughter.... I am not going to put her in the position of having him here at home again. That would be very detrimental for her.

    Ugh..... I really hate this.
  2. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I'm so sorry...sending hugs.
  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    TL I am so sorry, and yes I know how you are feeling all too well. I wait every day for a call from the home telling me she either left or they are kicking her out. I know all about spice, when difficult child got together with a bunch of her rehab buddies to attend the funeral of one of them who died on Christmas Day from heroin, one of them brought spice and they all smoked it at the hotel they were staying at. Nice huh? How many young people have to die before they get it???

    Back to your difficult child, have you spoken with him? You know we see the signs way before. I saw it with my difficult child and although she tried to deny it I knew she was relapsing long before it was undeniable. We learned in our parent's education days at rehab not to ignore those signs but to recognize them for what they are and stick to our line in the sand. Get to an alanon meeting. Decide what youand husband and willing to live with and what you aren't and make that clear to difficult child. He probably will not go to the shelter, our difficult child would not. He may end up on the street for a while. Hopefully he will turn this around. He has the tools, he just has to be willing to do it now.

    You may want to start checking into sober homes near you if he chooses to come back to your area.

    I will be thinking of you and trying to give you strength. This is a horrible roller coaster we are on.

  4. elizabrary

    elizabrary Member

    I'm so sorry. I am so impressed that you guys are staying so strong. I know it is hard, but you are doing the right thing. Sending positive thoughts and energy your way.
  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Grandpa

    Hey TL, I'm really sorry for what you are experiencing. You are definitely so right and must stick to your guns on him not coming back. Papers and Visine are screaming "pot!" - I don't know how he beats the drug tests (there are ways) and maybe he just has the stuff in hopes of scoring a joint but it still indicates that his mind is not on recovery but on using. Until that changes there will be no progress unfortunately. Stay strong.
  6. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Thanks all. It is easier to stay strong when he is not really communicating with us. It will be harder when he calls upset, crying and begging to come home. I think he knows he can't come and live here but I suspect he will hope to come back home and have us help him get an apartment.... that won't happen. The only way we will pay for anything is if he goes to a sober living place. And although I am kind of looking at the internet, this time I am not going to be the one to find a place for him. This time it needs to be all up to him, and he can come to us to help him pay for tx. It is clear he has to be at the place where he is really willing to work for his own tx.... and maybe it will take another stint in jail for him to get that again.... or maybe some unpleasant time in a homeless shelter or on the street. Both awful thoughts but we cannot continue to try and save him if he is not willing to really work hard to save himself. It is hard because it is easy to imagine him dead or in jail..... and of course jail would be a better choice.

    He is passing the drug tests but they don't test for everything and don't test for Spice which is what the folks at the sober house think he has been doing. They are probably right... and somehow in his mind it doesn't count. I just saw on his fb page that he has been sober for 6 months... well that is clearly not true. He wants to be able to live his life and do what he wants....

    Well my feeling at this point is he now has the freedom to do just that. He can live his life and do it by his own rules. I am not sure how he will have money but he has the freedom to figure that out. We have the freedom to choose how we will help out financially.... and we are not going to help him out if he is living on his own doing whatever. Enough of that.

    As much as I want to know how he is doing it is easier to take the hard line when he is not actually talking to us. I think the sober house folks are going to call us back this afteroon after they have met and hopefully talked to him. They are good people and really care... but really none of us can help him if he doesn't want to help himself.

    I am trying to just be ok myself no matter what happens.
  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Grandpa

    I'm sure you are right. I didn't know what Spice is but I do now.

    That's all you can do.
  8. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    As I understand it there is no test for spice yet. Also these kids don't think spice is illegal, because it isn't yet in most states. They think it's just a plant so no big deal. What they fail to realize is any mind altering substance breaks their sobriety.

    It is easier to be strong when he is not calling. I know that hardest part for us was when she called begging to come home. It was also the time that she was most agreeable to treatment though so just make sure you know what you will say if he calls.

    by the way I know a lot of difficult child's acquaintences that pass their drug tests and are still using. They have all sorts of detox stuff on the market. But I'm sure he's probably using spice right now. It's a slippery slope though.

  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so so sorry. Sending hopes and prayers that he will someday soon realize all he is throwing away and figure out that no high is worth sacrificing the trust and faith of the ones who truly love you.
  10. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I can understand your disappointment. What a shame it is how many of our young adults are into substances and just seem to substitute one for anothr. Sending hugs. DDD
  11. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    From what I read on the Internet today spice is stronger than pot and because of the chemicals more dangerous. I really don't see how he could think if he is smoking anything to get high that would not be breaking his sobriety!

    The sober house folks are talking to him tonight. If he is willing to follow the rules he can stay but they will have him on a short leash. I guess he told them he was leaving the not sure where he thinks he is going. I know he is thinking of moving in with a girlfriend and her mother which is just nuts. My husband tells me I need to completely stay out of that and not call the other mom and tell her she's nuts if she does that. He is probably right but i hate to have thengf and her mom deal with his bad behavior when he starts using again, part of me feels I should warn the mom.
  12. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    No no no. They should be smart enough to understand the risks with him in a sober house now. I agree with your husband, mine would be saying the same thing. He needs to get his own consequences and if you interfere he will just blame you and use that as amunition for you to help him. Let him make his own choices.

    I hated when difficult child moved in with our neighbor. I wanted to tell them she is now their problem but then I thought so what if they kick her out, she will want to come home. Better that they find out what she is really like on their own and have her have to deal with the consequences.

  13. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    I think the sober house folks are onto him.... they will only let him stay if he is sincere and really follows the rules. I don't have a problem with them giving him a 2nd chance as long as he really wants it. I am not sure where he will be with this talk, he may just be ****** off and leave.

    You are right I should stay out of it with the girlfriend.... a part of me just feels guilty that another girl and her family might be screwed by him. He can be so charming and I am sure has been when he has met this mom before. But you are right I can give him my opinion (if he asks which he probably won't) but then he and they need to find out for themselves. I really think he is stupid if he comes back into the state as if he doesn't follow through with his probation he could easily end up in jail. I am not sure that has sunk in..... but so be it. At this point it is a waiting game. I do ok when I am busy but I find this all so distracting, it makes it hard to concentrate on anything.
  14. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    Try to think of it this way : The sooner he has to face the real consequences of his decisions and actions, the sooner he hits rock bottom, seeks help on his own and is willing to do whatever it takes to get sober.

    With bff there were some days I had to literally chant that to myself under my breath. It's still hard as hades.......but it helped me to be able to tell her no over and over and over again when my heart wanted to give in.

    Praying hard for you all.
  15. KFld

    KFld New Member

    It is so dissapointing when you finally get them into a facility and breath a sigh of relief, and then to have them mess it up and get kicked out is just devestating.

    I'm glad you are staying strong. Good for you for not allowing him to come home, especially for your daughters sake. I know last month when I allowed my son to sleep on my couch for a few days while he was trying to get himself some help, my daughter went and stayed at her boyfriends. She wanted no part of living with him again. He stole too much from her in the past and she locked her bedroom door and left, so I know I could never put her through that again.

    I hope he makes the right choice and they keep him, but if not, that is his choice and he needs to learn how to live by it, but you don't have to live by his choice. You only have to live by the choices you have made for your life :)
  16. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Oh, hon. Huge amounts of hugs headed your way.

    Spice, or K2, is sold as incense. Incense, my hiney.

    People will do almost anything to get a high. With Onyxx, cold medications are her preferred. Ugh.

    I don't know what to tell you, but I will keep you in my thoughts & prayers.
  17. FlowerGarden

    FlowerGarden Active Member

    Hugs to you. Thanks for posting about spice. I didn't know anything about it. This site has truly made me aware of many things.
  18. Star*

    Star* call 911


    We were at the flea market this weekend and a guy right out in the open was selling Spice, one hitters, bongs - I thought at first they were perfume bottles like the I dream of Jeanie things, then he asked me if I'd ever tried Spice. I said "I use spices all the time,", then he even offered me a hit. I thought Df was going to take his head off. DF said "Friend I think you are mistaken my WIFE said she COOKS with spices." one look from DF said it all and idiot man apologized. I had no clue what spice was, now I do. I don't know how they sell this stuff, but it's legal. He apparently was selling a lot of it. Mostly to anyone that would buy it too. Pink wrapper here. Foil pack. Said it smokes just like marijuana - wonderful.

    Again I wish I had some wonderful words for you - maybe use this quiet time to get some information from people at Alanon and AA mostly to find sober house information and Homeless shelters information and things like work today get paid today places and bus schedules. Good wills, salvation armys things like that. We handed that to Dude, and were getting ready to take him to the park and DF couldn't do it. We found out all too quickly what a HUGE mistake it was to let him come stay here, and he left here on bad terms with everyone. I haven't seen him for over a year and a half, but we talk now more than we ever did and he is getting it together. It's been very hard for him, but it had to be otherwise he wouldn't have seen what he had, and what he lost. now he knows.

    My heart goes out to you, many hugs for you tonight and much love. My Mom heart hurts for you. My friend heart is supporting you and keeping you strong.