Ok...so now bipolar is maybe in the mix!!!???

[lovelyboy]

I went to a very good child clinical psychologist today....Had the first parent interview/ background interview.....She did her phd in playtherapy and has 20 yrs experience....Wanted her to work a bit with my oldest son to help him with some cognitive skills to deal with his anxieties, social skills , anger management....self esteem...exct.
She was very interested in all I had to say....Almost fainted when she heard that neuro said it was all manipulation......and almost fell of her chair when I said he also had a abnormal EEG in R temperal lobe! She said this can cause plenty of emotional regulation problems, auditory problems, visual disturbances...exct.
She didnt make a diagnosis or something yet, but I could read between the lines that she strongly suspect bipolar disorder!!!! Psychiatrist didnt picture up on this......
I do see the depression....some hiper activity, but more constant irritibility....
She says we first need to sort out the neuro stuff....then she wants to talk with psichiatrist...she says she is not fully confinced about Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) allthough it could be dual diagnosis, then wants to work with neuro to work out plan of treatment.....
I am still in shock! Any one with bipolar experience....Is there overlapping in symptoms with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)?
Thanx!

 

[TerryJ2]

Yes, we're sort of moving in that direction, too. One of the red flags for us is that the lithium is actually helping difficult child, and I don't know any dr who would say that lithium would help Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)! However, our difficult child also does well on Concerta, which is a stimulant, which is traditionally very bad for people with-bipolar.
Now, I realize that not everyone is a textbook case, but it's getting pretty complicated.
My son could be borderline, or narcissistic, or Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and bipolar ... it's a work in progress.

When he first got the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) label, I researched the heck out of it, knowing that it could be wrong. But I really, really liked the interventions and decided that they would help no matter what. I mean, what's not to recommend about routine, lots of sleep, healthy foods, Omega 3 fatty acids, and therapy?

I don't know if that helps at all ...

 

[lovelyboy]

Thanx Terry.....Yes it is complicated!!!!
For example....I read that in children they use irritability as a mania symptom! My son gets the lows, but boy his irritibility is so uncomfortable! Also....I realize, symptoms can easily be put into different boxes depending on the glasses(diagnosis) you put on.....For example, usually when he starts talking about his current object of interest and keeps on going on and drive you nuts....looking from an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) perspective, its an indication of obsessive thoughts, no sosial judjement to stop, exct.....Looking from a BiPolar (BP) perspective...it could be verbal diahree....not having the ability to stop!
Also what I have read BiPolar (BP) also presents with anxiety, poor sleeping, impulsivity, poor social relationships.....like Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)
But his poor abstract reasoning, literal thinking....lack of reading context....exct makes me think of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)? But then it could also be of possible temperal lobe stuff going on?
I am glad our psychiatrist is a tuff mamma....who will stand her ground without becoming defensive......I think the right person to stear this boat!

 

[BusynMember]

My son was misdiagnosed with bipolar (be careful). Those moodswings and hyperness and obsessive talking about one topic are classic Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).

My son is almost nineteen and not on any medications now and is most certainly not bipolar. I personally don't like the bipolar diagnosis in kids. I wonder how many of these bipolar kids really have bipolar that manifests itself when the child gets older. in my opinion I think it's often a misdiagnosis and, yes, it could easily be mistaken in Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). I'd be careful. The drugs for childhood are very heavy hitting and carry a lot of side effects. I'm sorry I put my young son on such heavy duty drugs, especially since now that he's older, he clearly does not have a mood disorder.

Caution is your friend A psychologist is not a psychiatrist, no matter how many years she has been at it and what her reputation is.

 

[TeDo]

I agree with MWM. difficult child 1 has moodswings but when I really concentrated and document on those times, I could narrow the cause to other things like a couple late nights, different eating schedule so he hadn't eaten much, spending an entire day at a friends, etc. It usually took him a few days to recover from some of these things and his irritability was through the roof until his system got back to normal. The more you talk about your youngest, the more I am convinced that Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) is the best fitting possibility. From everything you've said, he's a classic case.

 

[TerryJ2]

Lovelyboy,
in regard to other comments here, I just noticed that your son is 9. If we had put our difficult child on lithium at that age, I have no doubt it would not have worked. Right now, at age 15-1/2, he's deep into hormones but emotionally, still around 10. I have to remind myself often, when I find myself wishing we'd used more mood stabilizers at a younger age, that it probably wouldn't have worked, and very well could have made things worse.
One of the best things he was put on at night, and as a prn for moods, was clonidine, which is actually an adult blood pressure medication. It does not stay in your system very long at all. Same thing for Adderall/Concerta. I like those types of medications, where, if there is a reaction, you just stop giving it to the kid.
This therapist is not a medication dr, right? So she can't prescribe anyway. What sort of treatment is she outlining? Behavior modification, anger mgmt, etc? Those will be necessary no matter what.
It sounds like you like this therapist and can get along, so keep an open mind, and hope that she does, too! It is always interesting to see how different therapists have such a different take on things.

 

[lovelyboy]

Thanx...your feedback helps alot!
This therapist is planning unstructured playtherapy.....I am curious about this, because usually unstructured activities=anxiety and irritation within my son! But I believe she will have enough experience to assess this....She is seing him the 14 August for a 2 hour assessment session....She said that she wants to follow his lead....Well maybe this new angle is exactly what he needs?
I have alot of trust in our psychiatrist...She is a big, relaxed, determined mamma, who raised and survived 4 strongwilled kids! She will stand her ground...I feel save with her....Trusting her judgement and diagnosis.....She will be willing to listen to other professionals input....make a note.....and then decide.....

 

[lovelyboy]

Lol Bradevens......don't think we must start having competitions regarding our childrens challenges!!!!!

 

[TerryJ2]

Let us know how the play therapy goes. It sounds interesting. We've never done that.

 

[DammitJanet]

I most certainly believe that children can have bipolar. I know I have had it since I was at least 2 or 3. I cant remember before then so I cant say. There is also something new that is coming out in the newest DSM called TDD( temper dysregulation disorder) It is like bipolar in children but they dont carry it over into adults. At one point a doctor thought my son had that but that was before he was willing to admit his issues that are happening to him now as an adult.

 

[welcometowitsend]

I do believe that bipolar can present itself in children but I think you are right to be cautious and look at all the possibilities.

Like you and Terry we are in the midst of trying to get doctors and diagnosis for our difficult child. He already has a diagnosis of tourette's and adhd but I suspect either aspergers and depression or bipolar. I just want to get some answers so that we can start moving forward instead of sitting in this horrible limbo.

Let us know how the play therapy goes. I wonder if she is letting him take the lead to see the anxiety or irrriation? Or how much it takes for him to get anxious or irritated so she can help him deal with it?

 

[lovelyboy]

She said she will give a little guidance during the beginning of the assessment...maybe just to calm the anxiety a bit? Then she wants him to choose what he wants to do and she will follow.....?

 

[InsaneCdn]

As an assessment, that would raise question marks.
As play therapy, it would be quite normal.

Are you sure she meant "assessment"?

 

[Nomad]

Sometimes children can have mixed symptoms with bipolar....both manic and depressed at the same time.
I think there can be overlapping symptoms with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). Sometimes, it takes awhile to make a firm diagnosis.
We had one doctor very seriously consider that diagnosis for our difficult child child. But, many more who were sure it was Bipolar illness. Oh, and the symptoms showed up VERY young.
You might want to read the book "The Bipolar Child," by Dr. P..... (can't remember the spelling of the last name). It is an excellent book.
And I agree with Terri, a low dosage of Fish Oil, might be worth a try.
Take VERY good care of yourself