Spinning Wheels

[New Leaf]

Hi all,
Tornado is back in jail again, picked up by sheriffs on a bench warrant for violating her probation, again. To recap- after reconnecting with family, espousing rehab doctrine, she abruptly left sober living and ran off with her “new boyfriend.” It’s like a bizarre game show, “I’m back! I love you guys, oooops relapse, sorry, not sorry off to the abyss I go.” We are left once again to process the face smack of it.
And so it goes.
She called me two nights ago and said that she is considering asking the judge for sentencing to "just finish her term", rather than trying rehab again, because it’s “obviously not working.”
You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make her drink.
Her stance now is, that she is a drug addict, it’s a disease and she may, or may not continue to use meth. If that is the case, she wants reassurance that her family will “just accept that” and have a relationship with her, even if she is not sober. “Will you continue to hate me, if I use drugs?”
“Will you visit me in jail?” The women’s prison has a nicer setting outdoors for family visits….” “ I have money in my bag, will you come get it and put it on my account?” Ummmm nope. To all. Of course I don't hate her, but will not tolerate meth use. I will absolutely not subject my granddaughter to it.
There is no amount of trying to explain the hurt and drama the family has endured due to her drug use, as the reason why we wont have contact as long as drugs are her choice. She wants her cake and eat it too. "Just because I use drugs doesn't mean Iʻm a bad person Mom, Iʻve never stolen from you......" Well, she has stolen from me, the money and jewelry missing is not the worst of it, it's the time and peace, peace in my home, peace of mind, health issues from the stress, need I say more? She has stolen her children's youth and burdened them with trauma.
“I learned in rehab that no one can make you feel a certain type of way. So you telling me how much you are hurt and worry, just shows me that I will never live up to your expectations.” So, in other words, I’m making her feel a certain way……
Circular conversation continues where she starts to rant on how she loves us and wants to be involved with the family no matter what her circumstances. That when she was growing up we took her to family parties where people were drinking and “that’s the same thing.” That her son feels the same way, that people don’t accept him for who he is and that’s not right. Her son has violent outbursts and punches holes in walls, etc. Well, of course that is unacceptable behavior, as is meth use.
Sigh.
I have had a second conversation with her with much the same rhetoric.
One would think that after all of these years I would be somewhat immune to this, but I still find my head spinning after speaking with her. Not good. I already have enough challenges with my health to subject myself to attempts to suck me back into the rabbit hole. The swirly whirly as I so long ago dubbed that feeling of being on a not so merry-go-round. I am standing in front of the ticket booth and Tornado is trying to convince me to get on for another hellish ride.
Nope.
I blocked the number. Do I feel bad about that? In some ways yes. I have read that prisoners do better if they have some sort of family connection. But to use Tornados words "Its obviously not working."
For her, or for me.
CD was down for a bit while I was trying to process all of this, so I did a web search "Addicted adult daughter wants family connection while using drugs". Up popped info from expensive rehabs urging maintaining relationship, not alienating the family member by harping on sobriety, try to arrange an intervention, and info on how how to manage self care.
I think after nearly twenty years of this we are beyond all that.
So, for now, I am going off the radar with Tornado, as damage control, because I need space to breathe. I have to look after my health and maintain a semblance of sanity.
Thank you guys for following along.
Im tired.
(((Hugs)))
Somewhat wilted Leaf

 

[ANewLife4Me]

I am so sorry NewLeaf that this cycle has begun for you yet again. Sending you love and a big hug! So familiar is this with my own daughter, the multitude of promises made while in jail, they want to change and are a different person until they get out. I commend you for not taking her money and putting it on the books for her. Also that you blocked the number and going no contact, we know how difficult this is but as you said your health is suffering as well as your mental. Same with my daughter I am letting her feel the full force of her actions, no contact - no money on the books - not living with us when she gets out. God help both our children to open their eyes and understand that they have to take charge of their life….we are done.

 

[Copabanana]

If that is the case, she wants reassurance that her family will “just accept that” and have a relationship with her, even if she is not sober. “Will you continue to hate me, if I use drugs?”

This is crazy-making. It's putting all the onus on you: the problem here is your "hating her" rather than her choices and behavior being hateful and hurtful.

“I learned in rehab that no one can make you feel a certain type of way. So you telling me how much you are hurt and worry, just shows me that I will never live up to your expectations.” So, in other words, I’m making her feel a certain way……

Again, I feel nuts just reading this, however many thousand miles away I am.

OK. I read this as I will continue to live exactly the way I want to. It's your problem, not mine. If you have boundaries for me, you're toxic to me. I refuse to question, look at, see, or accept that anything I do is hurtful to me or others. The toxicity is a one-way street. You, New Leaf, are toxic. Whew.

Circular conversation continues where she starts to rant on how she loves us and wants to be involved with the family no matter what her circumstances.

My G-d, I feel like I am translating from another language. Or better yet, I've found a Tablet from 3000BC that I need both translate and put into some archeological context. This translates into: I will do whatever the I want,. I don't give a how it affects you (New Leaf) my children or anybody else.

The self-righteousness. The entitlement. She is very very smart. Too smart.

I don't see how anybody can have a conversation with her. At all. There is no reciprocity here.

The sadness and pain of loving somebody so much who is doing this to you. Poor us.

This is Martin Buber. Two kinds of consciousness. Thingness and Subjective. She is denying your humanity because she has obliterated her own. If it were me I would not have physical or verbal contact with her. It would be too hurtful. I would consider writing back and forth.

I am so sorry New Leaf.

 

[Deni D]

Her stance now is, that she is a drug addict, it’s a disease and she may, or may not continue to use meth. If that is the case, she wants reassurance that her family will “just accept that” and have a relationship with her, even if she is not sober. “Will you continue to hate me, if I use drugs?”

“I learned in rehab that no one can make you feel a certain type of way. So you telling me how much you are hurt and worry, just shows me that I will never live up to your expectations.” So, in other words, I’m making her feel a certain way……

she wants her cake and eat it too. "Just because I use drugs doesn't mean Iʻm a bad person Mom, Iʻve never stolen from you......"

It seems to me she's just too used to living in the world she lives in. I wonder how many twists and turns it takes in her head to normalize the way she lives. And how many more to try to normalize what the affect of her drug use, with all that comes with it, has on her family. It's as if she's saying you are making a choice not to bother with her because she dresses differently or something.

I don't know. It seems wherever she is in the moment is where she goes. Like she has no inner life. In jail she's going to straighten up her life. In rehab she's going to stay sober. Until someone comes along that can give her an excuse to go back on the streets.

I don't think those expensive rehabs are all that great, only their marketing. A family member of mine used one, the reality was he was placed in a dump with a bunch of other people with very little supervision.

So, for now, I am going off the radar with Tornado, as damage control, because I need space to breathe. I have to look after my health and maintain a semblance of sanity.

I think a very wise choice. You just have not one ounce of control here. All you can do is pray that in someway, somehow, she figures out she actually can control herself and her life to make it better. For you, I'm banking on you leaning on your other family relationships, your interests and God as you experience him hold you up, lift you up, and give you peace as you so much deserve.

 

[Copabanana]

I wonder how many twists and turns it takes in her head to normalize the way she lives. And how many more to try to normalize what the affect of her drug use, with all that comes with it, has on her family. It's as if she's saying you are making a choice not to bother with her because she dresses differently or something.

Yes. When I read this I felt Deni's words viscerally. Tornado isn't trying to hurt you. She's protecting herself. Imagine what it would be to have to accept giving up 20 years of her life, her children, and most of all her self-respect. it must feel to her to be such a crushing loss that she can't go there.

How many twists and turns does she need to do to make herself your victim? Lots.

It's almost as if she's accusing you of discrimination.

Like she has no inner life.

This is painful because it's a question about all of our children.

Everything Deni writes seems true to me. Like Tornado is a rolling stone. Where she rolls is who she is. And the momentum, the gravity, is the addiction. Her motivation is all tied up with the drug because that is what addiction is.

 

[New Leaf]

I happened upon a podcast group of recovering addicts called the hopeaholics. In one episode they talk about how the disease lies to them and places blame on everyone else, putting them in a “selfish victim mentality mode.” I feel that unfortunately this is where Tornado is at.
Tornados eldest came over today on a rare visit with his wife and three, yes three children. He was just 14 when we found out his 16 year old girlfriend was pregnant. That was in 2018. In the summer of 2019, he and his siblings ended up coming to live with me after bouncing back and forth most of their lives because of their parents drug use. I held my youngest great grandson (just 3 months old) his 1 year old brother playing quietly (yup, do the math) as I listened to my 4 year old great granddaughter exclaim “I go to my tutus house a lot because mom and dad always fight.” I looked at my grandson and said “This is how you grew up, you do not have to follow in your parents footsteps.”
I thought back to when my grands were little and how they would burst into my house, they were wild and rascally, I called them my hooligans.
It was not their fault that their parents chose drugs, yet they had to deal with the consequences. Removed from their parents as babies, hubs and I took them in while Tornado and Volcano went to court ordered parenting and anger management classes, drug testing. As soon as they were placed back with their parents and CPS took a backseat, the drug use stepped up along with years of instability for my grands.
Generational trauma is what visited me today.
I hope that my grandson will understand how insidiously that passes down and slips through the crevices of unresolved lingering pain.
This is what we have lived through with active addiction. Watching helplessly as drugs take down not only my two daughters, but also seeing the negative affect on my three grandchildren, and now passed on to my great grands.
Am I mad? Yup. The memories. The injuries my grands suffered for lack of parental care, physical, emotional and mental. It’s too much.
I do understand that it is too much for Tornado to bear as well, and the guilt is another driving factor for her drug use.

Sending you love and a big hug!

Thank you Newlife

So familiar is this with my own daughter, the multitude of promises made while in jail, they want to change and are a different person until they get out.

She has gone back to square one this time around. Excuses and blame. No promises, accept that she will continue to be unpredictable. Maybe it is the truth. Maybe she is telling me how she feels and not what she knows I want to hear.

God help both our children to open their eyes and understand that they have to take charge of their life….we are done.

I am done until she decides to get help. I told her a long time ago that I would be there if she quit using.

This is crazy-making. It's putting all the onus on you: the problem here is your "hating her" rather than her choices and behavior being hateful and hurtful.

Thank you Copa. That’s the thing that makes my head spin. It’s difficult to toss emotions on the side and try to keep my wits about.

Again, I feel nuts just reading this, however many thousand miles away I am.

OK. I read this as I will continue to live exactly the way I want to. It's your problem, not mine. If you have boundaries for me, you're toxic to me. I refuse to question, look at, see, or accept that anything I do is hurtful to me or others. The toxicity is a one-way street. You, New Leaf, are toxic. Whew.

Yes, it’s me, or is it me? Should I engage, or shouldn’t I? Round and round we go.

My G-d, I feel like I am translating from another language. Or better yet, I've found a Tablet from 3000BC that I need both translate and put into some archeological context. This translates into: I will do whatever the I want,. I don't give a how it affects you (New Leaf) my children or anybody else.

That’s exactly how I interpreted her rant.

The self-righteousness. The entitlement. She is very very smart. Too smart.

She is smart and knows how to weave in and out. I feel she is in survival mode at this point. But, she is also not sugar coating anything. She is not feeding me with promises.

I don't see how anybody can have a conversation with her. At all. There is no reciprocity here.

It is all very one sided for sure. If I try to explain my feelings, she gets more defensive.

This is Martin Buber. Two kinds of consciousness. Thingness and Subjective. She is denying your humanity because she has obliterated her own. If it were me I would not have physical or verbal contact with her. It would be too hurtful. I would consider writing back and forth.

I will give it some time and see if she writes. I can keep tabs on her in the meantime through the court website and my friend who works at the prison.

It seems to me she's just too used to living in the world she lives in. I wonder how many twists and turns it takes in her head to normalize the way she lives. And how many more to try to normalize what the affect of her drug use, with all that comes with it, has on her family. It's as if she's saying you are making a choice not to bother with her because she dresses differently or something.

She has not been able to come to terms with the hurt she has caused.
I used to wonder why in a 12 step program, admitting to that and making amends was so far down the list. I came to understand that when working towards sobriety, the guilt can be overwhelming and impede recovery.

It seems wherever she is in the moment is where she goes. Like she has no inner life. In jail she's going to straighten up her life. In rehab she's going to stay sober. Until someone comes along that can give her an excuse to go back on the streets.

It’s a vicious cycle. What she is talking about is the opposite of what rehab teaches. But her stints in rehab have all been through the court, it’s either jail or rehab. Not self motivated. Not that she has tired of street life and drug use.

You just have not one ounce of control here. All you can do is pray that in someway, somehow, she figures out she actually can control herself and her life to make it better. For you, I'm banking on you leaning on your other family relationships, your interests and God as you experience him hold you up, lift you up, and give you peace as you so much deserve.

Thank you Deni. My three well children are concerned and very supportive of what I decide to do. They do not want to be involved with their sisters at all. Too many horrific memories of the chaos and drama that comes with drug use. My focus continues to be on my granddaughter. I love Tornado and pray that she will see her light and potential. But that is her journey as long as she chooses to bend to her addiction.

Yes. When I read this I felt Deni's words viscerally. Tornado isn't trying to hurt you. She's protecting herself. Imagine what it would be to have to accept giving up 20 years of her life, her children, and most of all her self-respect. it must feel to her to be such a crushing loss that she can't go there.

I do understand this side of addiction. That’s my conundrum. How much do I stay involved as she grapples with the demons of her past while soothing her wounds with meth use?

This is painful because it's a question about all of our children.

It is extremely painful. A double edged sword. But my sacrificing myself will not save her. She has stopped in her tracks at half of the first step, admitting she is powerless over the drug. The rest is to see how your life has become unmanageable, then onward to take the steps to work on sober living. It’s as if she is looking up that stairwell and saying I can’t do the rest, it’s too hard, I’ve tried already, I’m done.

Where she rolls is who she is. And the momentum, the gravity, is the addiction. Her motivation is all tied up with the drug because that is what addiction is.

Yes. And yet, I can’t allow my love for her to get tangled up in the bind she is in. I can’t allow my empathy for how she must feel about her history, move me back to rescue mode. I have to remind myself that her motivation is also driven by her wanting to be more comfortable in jail, money on her books for candy and better soap, shampoo. It’s like she took a few giant steps forward through rehab and on to sober living, and now has gone all the way back to wanting to be accepted “the way she is.” She has thrown in the towel at this point, and wants me to go along with that. “I can do drugs and be a good person at the same time. I relapsed Mom, but I had my own place, I was working.” Basically she is telling me that she can be a functioning addict and that her family should just accept that.
It is dangerous territory for all of us.
Her past is water under the bridge, but her refusing sobriety is like rain soaked ground with storm warnings and impending flash floods. “Turn around don’t drown.” That is the ticker tape warning going through my head right now. Do I think my going no contact will motivate her to seek sobriety? No. I don’t think at this point that anything I do or say will be a change agent for her. I need to go into self preservation mode. I have to see the situation through my lens, not hers. Her lens at this point is clouded by her addiction. Do I feel for her? Yes. I do. But, she will have to navigate her ship through the storm, for the time being.
I will spend some sleepless nights trying to process this all over again.
It is not to say that I will continue no contact, only time will tell what my next step is. Regardless of what she is trying to spin, about emotional reactions being my own issue, I am already feeling the stress in my aching bones. I get that it is addiction talking, but addiction is a heartless beast.
I will keep her in my prayers for the time being and take respite to heal.
Thank you all so much for your input. It is good to be able to write it all out and receive your kindness, support and understanding.
Love and hugs
Leaf

 

[ANewLife4Me]

NewLeaf, you have such a wonderful way of putting your feelings into words oh how I felt what you were saying! Self preservation mode, we know how our children are affecting us trying to make them see the sense of it all but, nothing we try ever works for them.

“Her past is water under the bridge, but her refusing sobriety is like rain soaked ground with storm warnings and impending flash floods. “Turn around don’t drown.” That is the ticker tape warning going through my head right now. Do I think my going no contact will motivate her to seek sobriety? No. I don’t think at this point that anything I do or say will be a change agent for her. I need to go into self preservation mode. I have to see the situation through my lens, not hers. Her lens at this point is clouded by her addiction. Do I feel for her? Yes. I do. But, she will have to navigate her ship through the storm, for the time being.
I will spend some sleepless nights trying to process this all over again.”

Will pray and hope that you can get past your sleepless nights and not focus on her solely. We know exactly the timing of when we must care for ourselves more than them. I recently have come to a better relationship with my son, he is calling me more now and have seen him 2 weekends in a row and had a wonderful time being with him. It’s that his understanding came about, he knew what his role was in our relationship and he has made changes to bring it into something wonderful and healthy for us all. I use my son as the example because changes were made and it can be done. Our daughters are not there yet, we pray and hope, we have open loving arms waiting, we are STILL amazing parents and they can be the greatest kids. They have to wanna.

 

[Crayola14]

It’s sad that she has resigned herself to that kind of life and to a permanent relationship with drugs. I don’t know what happens to cause her to relapse, or why she thinks she cannot get through life with drugs. She’s lying to herself if she thinks she can’t stop.

 

[New Leaf]

Hi Crayola,

It’s sad that she has resigned herself to that kind of life and to a permanent relationship with drugs. I don’t know what happens to cause her to relapse, or why she thinks she cannot get through life with drugs. She’s lying to herself if she thinks she can’t stop.

It is sad, but I am realizing that is her state of mind for the moment. She has been using meth for a very long time. From what I have read, withdrawing is quite difficult depression, fatigue, anxiety and intense cravings occur. She is only able to see her own suffering. If I do decide to communicate with her, the only thing I can tell her is that I love her dearly.
That is where I am at, at this point. I have much to work on still with detachment, not reacting to her state of mind and allowing it to affect me negatively. It’s hard, loving an addict.
As crazy as it sounds, she is being truthful with her feelings and I suppose that is better than telling me what she knows I want to hear.
Thank you for your thoughts Crayola.
New Leaf

 

[Beta]

All I can say, NewLeaf, is that I'm sorry you're having to deal with this yet again. I do think you have made the right decision, for what it's worth.

 

[Copabanana]

From what I have read, withdrawing is quite difficult depression, fatigue, anxiety and intense cravings occur.

New Leaf, I don't remember if you ever told us, but does she use the drug through injection? This is the most difficult thing to quit, but even so, people do it. My town was on the Meth Highway during the 90's from Mexico. All around my town, I can see people working, their faces, no teeth, ravaged by IV Meth use. They quit. And now they work for a living. I have such admiration for them.

That is where I am at, at this point. I have much to work on still with detachment, not reacting to her state of mind and allowing it to affect me negatively. It’s hard, loving an addict.

My son has become quite psychotic. He has paranoid delusions. Trust me, I know how hard it is to not react. I don't know what is worse when he tells me how afraid he is, too afraid even to go to the library to read, or his total certainty that people follow and film him.

As crazy as it sounds, she is being truthful with her feelings and I suppose that is better than telling me what she knows I want to hear.
Thank you for your thoughts Crayola.

I don't know but this sounds positive to me, too. Maybe if she can be truthful to you she can come to tell herself the truth. What can we do New Leaf? It's horrible to be terrified and despondent and hope hurts too. But I choose hope. Ambivalently. Because the reality of my son's condition, when I am confronted with it, destroys me.

 

[New Leaf]

All I can say, NewLeaf, is that I'm sorry you're having to deal with this yet again. I do think you have made the right decision, for what it's worth.

Thank you Beta. I’m still on the fence about talking with her. If I do, I will keep it brief and just let her know that I love her. No sense getting stuck in circular talk.

New Leaf, I don't remember if you ever told us, but does she use the drug through injection? This is the most difficult thing to quit, but even so, people do it.

I don’t think she injects. I think she smokes it. She has her teeth, but her face has aged. When she is using, she becomes quite thin. In recovery, she is prone to weight gain, which she hates. I’m not giving up on her quitting, I know she can if she puts her mind to it. I think at this point she is still “defrosting” as my friend said after I texted him. He also said that at least she’s being honest and knows herself better than anyone. Unfortunately most of the meth users I am aware of are still using after many years.

My son has become quite psychotic. He has paranoid delusions. Trust me, I know how hard it is to not react. I don't know what is worse when he tells me how afraid he is, too afraid even to go to the library to read, or his total certainty that people follow and film him.

I’m so sorry Copa. That is very difficult to hear. I wish he was agreeable to seek medical care.

I don't know but this sounds positive to me, too. Maybe if she can be truthful to you she can come to tell herself the truth. What can we do New Leaf? It's horrible to be terrified and despondent and hope hurts too. But I choose hope. Ambivalently. Because the reality of my son's condition, when I am confronted with it, destroys me.

I can only continue to hope and pray that she can one day find herself. She is inside there somewhere buried under the drug use. I feel so for you Copa. It is the same for Rain. Her health has deteriorated. She won’t help herself. I think of her often, but have to rely on Gods will. There are days when I feel destroyed as well, but I have to get up and take care of my granddaughter. She looks remarkably like her mother, it takes peoples breath away. So far, she is finding her way. She will not have anything to do with Tornado, as long as she is using. When she is in rehab, she is very cautious and reserved. Although she does not talk about it, I know it hurts her deeply when her mom relapses.
Sigh.
There is nothing left to do but continue to build our toolbox and strengthen ourselves. Roll with the punches, soothe our wounded hearts and keep going.

 

[New Leaf]

Just got off the phone with my friend who is a prison guard. It was good to talk with him to get a better understanding of what life is like for my daughter while she is in there. Just thought I would share with you guys because he was super supportive and reassuring from his perspective. Tornado is well known amongst the guards and will get a spot on the work line as soon as it’s available. She will earn a small stipend and it will be enough to cover small items. That’s good. He said that after working over 20 years as a guard he has heard it all. He hears inmates on the phone trying to guilt trip their parents all the time. He also said that meth withdrawal is not the same as heroin, they don’t get sick, it is mostly the jonesing to get high and get a dopamine release, because with long term use, the brain doesn’t work as it should.
“You have to keep boundaries, that’s a healthy reasonable response to drug use.”
Of course I know this, but the affirmation is comforting.
So, I am staying the course as far as no money on the books, will communicate with Tornado with the boundary that if she becomes manipulative, the phone call will end.
I will forever be working on finding healthy ways to deal with my emotions as far as my two go. It’s not as much of a deep dive as years past, but I still get caught up with the sadness of their choices and lifestyle. It definitely stops me in my tracks for a bit.
May God help us all work through the challenges we face.
Thank you all for your kindness. I so appreciate your support.
New Leaf

 

[Beta]

She is inside there somewhere buried under the drug use.

That is what keeps many of us emotionally tethered to our addicted child--the belief that somewhere inside them is the person we once knew and loved.

 

[New Leaf]

That is what keeps many of us emotionally tethered to our addicted child--the belief that somewhere inside them is the person we once knew and loved.

I agree Beta. That is where I am trying to find balance- between hope and reality.

 

[Beta]

Yes, we can't give up hope--that's devastating in itself and also denies the reality of God's power in our child's life, but we also have to keep our sanity and be able to function in our day-to-day lives and not be constantly preoccupied with what might be happening with our child. It's a difficult balance.