Unattached children

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Daddywayhaar, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Daddywayhaar

    Daddywayhaar New Member

    This is the first post I've done after reading many many others for help when my daughter up and left one day so please sorry but I'm sure this will be long winded. My wife and I have 6 kids two step four adopted. Of the adopted ones 3 are a sibling group (same birth father) and the youngest was a private deal no genetic relation to the three. My oldest son graduated and began working for my neighbor. He has always been stand offish with us and know it all. Figured that's what kids do as teens considering my step daughter would just get angry at nothing and we couldn't calm her down ever. She is doing good as an adult now. Well my daughter was just quiet and told me she loves me I'd ask her if anything is on her mind and no all was great papa. Then hi school ended. She immediately ran off with an 18 year old freshman and immediately began hating on us thru texts and Facebook posts. I had no clue what happened! Where is my sweet young girl?!?! Took me two months to get over it and think back to her entire hi school career and subtle hints my wife had told me over the years. Finally I realized genetics won over environment. Learned about her birth moms violent history, remembered she tried manipulating every new school counselor, teachers, us with back pains that medically found nothing. My wife saw this coming, I did not because I let her handle the kids while I basically ignored both teens and hung out with the little ones whom were both babies when me got them, their older siblings were almost 5 and 6. Both those have moved on and I did get to talk to both of them individually. I truly believe my daughter is a sociopath who is using the people she is with until better ventures come along. My son, well he is and always had felt entitled, deserving of something have no idea. He's in our life but can be quite rude, but I have no concerns about his future. I don't know if I'll ever see my daughter again. I tried to raise them like we've had them since birth, but I admit attention from me, not my wife, focused on their little brother and sister. I see it now and deeply regret not being there 100 percent in their youth. Both have told me they never really attached to us, true or not who knows... but I know because of my past behaviors I am giving up for now trying to continue an adult relationship with them, mostly because it hurts me too much and I do blame myself for all this. I will admit I definitely would have never won father of the year with those two they were a handful, but I should have had more patients with them. For that alone I blame myself and have truly learned from my mistakes regarding the two younger ones. The one full sibling is 15 now and getting his college plans mentally in order. He is held in high esteem at his job for his work ethic (his older brother is as well, older sister seems to do well with hers I'm told), and his little sister is self teaching herself piano, like out of blue, just because she wants too. I'm terrified I'll do something wrong to screw them up like I feel I did with my older 2. Four very different personalities, one dad with a not so nice temper. Not anymore but my chest still pounds. That's it for now thanks for listening and I love deeply my kids, I just cannot relate to them and I can't take negative behavior in my life, spent too much of my life even before my wife living in my self hatred.
  2. DoneDad

    DoneDad Active Member

    Take it easy on yourself. Like you said, genetics usually seems to win out. There is no such thing as a perfect parent, but you did the best you could, now they're adults who make their own choices. If they want to be stand offish or rude or whatever, that's their decision. But we get to choose how much of it we allow in our lives.
  3. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    5 and 6 years old. They likely had attachment disorder when you got them. I adopted a six year old and he also said he could not attach to us.

    You could not have made up for the first five or six years, the time when deep bonds are formed. Probably nothing you tried could have helped. Your wife tried and it didnt work. We tried and this child we adopted at six has been totally gone for about fifteen years. That is attachment disorder. They can leave without pain od regret. This is more about the lack of our being around during their early years than what we did once they joined our families. Betting their early years were unstable with no primary caregiver. This is critical to the ability to attach. Babies need one loving consistent caregiver and if they dont have that they learn not to trust at a very young age. It changes the brain.

    Genetics matter too. But that is more about how they will turn out as far as personality and strong/weak spots than if they will attach. Also any substances mom ingested while pregnant can and usually does cause big problems. BIG.

    I tell others who ask about adoption to adopt infants and not older kids unless they can handle poor attachment...or none. My baby adoptions are terrific kids. Very attached and close to us. Now grown and doing well.

    The 5 and 6 year old adoptees were out of your hands, even before you met them. And my hands too with six year old. We wanted to adopt an older boy to give love to a child who had a rough start in life and was less likely to find a home. What we found is that love is not enough for older kids who never felt attachment in infancy. Our son got tons of love and attention, but it didnt help him to attach.

    It took me years to recover from my childs disappearance. Lots of therapy. Learned everything available about unattached children and adults.

    Now I enjoy my hub and four adult kids who love us. It was a lost cause with Goneboy before we even met him. Too much damage. He grew up in an orphanage in another country and had no parental figure.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  4. pigless in VA

    pigless in VA Well-Known Member

    Welcome, Daddy.

    You know sometimes we try our best and our children, adopted or birth, have issues which prevent us from being successful parents. We do our best at the time and hope they learn what they need to learn.

    My father left our family when I was 12, because my mother divorced him. I spent the rest of my life attempting to create a relationship with him which never materialized. He now has Alzheimer's disease, and I can honestly say I really didn't know my dad. I urge you to keep the door open with your children for the future. They may need you even as adults. I don't advocate you being abused or taken advantage of, but sound advice from a wise elder is like gold. Just because they are out of the house doesn't mean that they don't still need a father.
  5. Fran

    Fran Former desparate mom

    Sorry for the pain you are in. As parents, the best we can do is work in the best interest of the child with what the child is made of. I think my unique child was born with his disabilities, personality and assets. I don't have much experience with attachment issues.
    I tried to make his strengths better and support his weaknesses. He never got "cured" but he is doing the best he can manage at this time. Your children have grown to be law abiding, tax paying adults. The fact they don't love or attach to you is heartbreaking but secondary to our job as parents. They both get to decide how they want to live their lives from now on. Don't bail them out, respond with positive truth and try to focus on making yourself a healthier, better human. Once they leave your nest, you can not control anything. Let it go.
  6. Daddywayhaar

    Daddywayhaar New Member

    Thanks folks for the advise and you are correct they both are tax paying citizens good at their jobs. I am being selfish I admit trying to push my way into their adult lives when I wasn't really there for them as children. We played all the time when they were little but once teen years hit I literally froze, had no idea how to associate with them, especially in this day of social media and instant access to everything. I love it but did not grow up with it. My daughter is making up stories about her childhood getting pity from the, lack of a better word, lower income type folk she lives with (sorry if sounds wrong I mean no offense) and sometimes they call my wife. She however, whom is also adopted and never found her birth family, easily puts that down as she is a social worker and victims advocate. I hate to say this about my son but he is and always has been a d*ck. To his siblings also. Best way to describe. One comment was about attachment and thank you I honestly forgot about the attachment therapy we went thru until my son brought it up in our last conversation ripping on it how he hated it and it didn't work. I agree with the logic they may need you as adults down the road, but because my 2 little ones are here still I have elected to cut them out my life right now. I cannot take my daughters lies with these, the only people ever to believe them therefore she's latched to them people (she's tried for years with multiple people, just a coincidence this boy came along her senior year booted out of another school half way thru). And I can't stand my sons arrogance just unbelievable. Maybe next year we can reconnect but my sole goal this present is my wife's happiness and the success of my last two children. Thank for everyone's advise I truly appreciated it much!!!
  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Sometimes genetics just win. You move on and do what you can with the other kids.

    I bet there never was a day that you woke up and asked yourself, "How can I really mess up my kids today?" Not one single time did you ask yourself that question. So cut yourself a break and enjoy the kids who are still at home.

    I think something is seriously wrong with your daughter and it was wrong LONG before she came to you. Not sure about the older boy because I don 't know enough about him. It just isn't your fault.

    The fact that you did attachment therapy, which is darned hard to find, says a LOT about you as a father. Even if they hated it, you still did the therapy with them. You knew it was needed and the best for them at the time. I am sure you would probably have preferred to be somewhere else than therapy at that time also. You still went. You were a great father and it is NOT your fault they cannot appreciate that. It is their very great loss.
  8. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Actually Susie has a great point. You tried attachment therapy, which IS hard to find!!! You actually tried very hard.

    It is now up to your kids what will happen to your relationship.i agree to enjoy the kids at home...the ones you adopted at younger ages who are more able to love you.
    This is not anyones fault. Do not beat yourself up over this. You adopted these kids with a good heart and the intention to give them a loving family. You fulfilled this. It is nobodys fault if they were unable to recipricate. This happened before you ever knew them. But your heart was and is still right.

    Enjoy the kids who can love you back and know you made a big difference even in the lives of the kids who were already very damaged by the time you met them.
  9. Daddywayhaar

    Daddywayhaar New Member

    Thank you don't know why I forgot that guess it was just part of the agreement to adopting them. I know this is a difficult age for all people unless one is dedicated to themselves and their future. We all are of course some just more than others. I was lost myself all thru my early 20s and have and still have some addiction issues. My wife couldn't be more supportive to my life struggles and current ones regarding my kids. He philosophy on life - "It is what it is". I try and follow that daily by living in the present and not worrying about the "if I only did this different". Hard for me my brain never seems to be at peace. But I've always been this way. Zero regrets adopting my children I know birthborns can also have these same attachment issues seems like I'm a large family like ours there is the potential for one from what I've read in other posts. Hope for the best and just not worry about if they will be ok. I know they will survive just fine I believe I did teach them that about life. Thanks!!!
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  10. A dad

    A dad Active Member

    Okay let me point something about your oldest he is not arrogant and entittled why well you said he has an job and an good work ethic.
    You can not have all this and be entitled and arrogant that will be detrimental to an job.
    You are working 8 or more hours every day most days its impossible to hide who you are for so long.
    Point is you raised an hard working boy not an arrogant entitled brat.Be proud that what matters in the end raising productive law abiding members of society.
  11. Daddywayhaar

    Daddywayhaar New Member

    I'm not understanding my son and daughter right now. As mentioned before I met with both them individual and both told me they never bonded with us. That same night I met with my son my wife and daughter got into a heated argument over the phone about life I guess. Anyway it was on speaker and my daughter, whom had been drinking as my son told me this earlier, accused both of us of beating her thru her upbringing. Now again I know I wasn't the best, but that is something that never happened. And once again we could hear her wonderful boyfriend in the background talking smack. It was this point I decided to cut her out my life not only for false accusations, but I believe there is nothing she needs to tell me that she cannot tell her mom. That day I saw her last month she spend more time hanging on her boyfriend which made me feel uncomfortable, but that is a dad thing I surmise. She made it clear, in my opinion, she only needs this family she is living with (they live with his dad and his girlfriend and her kids and their girlfriends). So now last night out of the blue she repeatedly called the house phone and called her little brother looking for me. My youngest son makes his own decisions and I promise we do not ever talk bad of his siblings. Also she messaged her little sister on Friday to have me call her. So now she leaves me a rather snotty voicemail from someone else's phone stating she doesn't know what's going on but I better let her know right away. Her tone was demanding and then suddenly she trailed off into a sad "please". My wife has told me that I have to watch out with her as she will manipulate me for her personal gain. I always blew that off not even knowing what she meant until now honestly. I hate feeling cynical but she truly cries crocodile tears. She lives in the moment which is fine, but she torched the family bridge months ago including with my father (admitingly he can be over opinionated). She chose to disappear from our lives the way she did. She chose to tell her new friends how we beat her and only adopted her to be a cleaning slave (she actually said this) and that we only wanted her little brother but we're stuck with her and her older brother. I still don't know where this all came from. I don't understand the need for drama bombs. My wife says she does it for pity from her new family because we held her accountable for her actions and her lies to the counselors during high school. There was even a point in 10th grade where her best friend told her her mom won't let them hang out anymore because "her drama is affecting her schoolwork". I still to this day thought it was just normal high school girl stuff as I only had brothers growing up. I don't know what to believe. Her actions equal consequences which in this case is me not wanting to talk to her. I cannot listen to her just trash talk my wife and then be all cute and cuddly with me. I feel like it would put a rift in our marriage since she is sweetness with me, manipulation, and my wife gets all the s**t. Doesn't seem fair to me. My bottom line logic - anything she needs to say to me can be said to my wife also. I will not keep secrets and have no desire to inadvertently play sides between my wife and daughter. I believe I am doing the right thing yet feel terrible but I just do not trust my daughter at all. And my wife is correct - I will believe my daughters sad pity stories that are not true. Believe me cutting her out is for the greater good which is to forge a bond between mother and daughter no matter how I feel. Thanks!!!
  12. A dad

    A dad Active Member

    I was refering about your aon not your daughter there separate people do not let the action of one get to the other one.
    I know your issues with your daughter but as you inserted your son here and barely toched upon the issues you have may I as are hia arrogance and entitlement just word based or action based also like asking for money not respecting your rules being mean to his siblings not helping in anything and only asking and so forth?
  13. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    This "crazy lying" is a symptom of attachment disorder. Be careful. Unattached people dont have a normal conscience, dont attach, and use you for your money and other material goods. And they lie, lie, lie. I had this happen, the disconnection, with adopted child we got at age six. He walked away at about 28 and never looked back. Maybe its kinder that he doesnt torture us by coming back.

    Five is too old to expect normal attachment, sometimes not even attachment therapy works. Had I known this I would have only adopted babies. The baby adoptions we did are all very strong bonds, as strong as with our biological son. Our two older child adoptions were disasters. I warn all people who want to adopt to get a baby, as young as possible. Orphanages and foster care ars both brutal and bad for attachment. Best to adopt very young babies.

    Be safe. You did nothing wrong as a father. She was damaged way before you met her. You gave her a chance. You are a hero.

    Your older son...same deal. He is unattached, but will probably tske from you if it is offered. It means aything.
  14. Daddywayhaar

    Daddywayhaar New Member

    Yea your both correct I agree. Interesting turn of events I just found out yesterday my son has been skipping work. And I found out this morning my daughter got fired. Both of them tried to reach out to me and yes I believe a parents job is to be there for them throughout their entire lives, but I stand my ground that the bond needs to be rebuilt with mom, not dad. I feel it is extremely important to have the mom bond by comparison. Please understand I love them both unconditionally. But if my actions can bring them closer to my wife I feel what I am doing is worth it. Thanks
  15. Daddywayhaar

    Daddywayhaar New Member

    So my daughter dropped my wife from Facebook sighting she doesn't feel the need to have her mom on fb. The next day she sends my wife a text at 4am asking to come home for a night because she misses her family. Then a second text saying she needs to get away from the house she is in for a bit. This was yesterday and I don't know what my wife told her. I contacted my daughter the other day but without saying it she told me to go to hades for not being there when she needs me. Which this I get but I've got a job to do with work and family still under my roof. I did see her point but she was quite angry about it. So I don't know what to make of this coming home for a night situation. I say no way Jose she's up to something. This unique ability to flip flop mental states, if she is sincere, blows my mind. Is it sociopathic? I just don't know...
  16. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I think it is attachment disorder which is like having no or a low ability to care about others. She probably wants something...or did. And maybe that something changed...so now she doesnt.

    In no way do you have to listen to abuse from ANYONE. There are ways to disconnect your phone from texting and talking. I no longer tolerate any verbal abuse of me for any reason, no matter who it is. We dont deserve being abused.
  17. Daddywayhaar

    Daddywayhaar New Member

    She's so random with this but it has been awhile. I do recall the term reactive attachment disorder being used with my son and daughter back during therapy seems like forever ago. Fight or flight as well. Guess they did what they had to do, the only thing they knew how to do. Thank you I appreciate your words everyone's and I know a lot of people on this site have it way worse than I people are just so unpredictable at times.