Update, it's been awhile.

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Esri, Jan 11, 2015.

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  1. Esri

    Esri Member

    Not sure you guys remember me. My daughter turned 18 in June and moved out. Long story short or maybe not so short....we were doing ok and than not and now its really bad.

    We had taken a loan for a new car last June for her. She makes the payments and hasn't missed any.
    But because the car is under our name and insurance is as well, we asked her not to do drugs. It was s liability and we said we would drug test. We have every right asking this, no??

    Months went by and I thought she was clean but than I saw that she was not. We told her she needed to come by for a drug test.

    Instead of agreeing, she said she was going to take out a loan in her name. Well of course she would need a cosigner because she's 18 and zero credit. I contacted our insurance to get a quote for her own policy. She pays $50 a month under ours, with her own policy it would be $225 a month.

    We were planning to have a talk about all of this tomorrow and reiterate the no drugs rule. Well everything came to a head today,

    She told me to just take the effing car.

    I said are you choosing drugs over a new car and she says no I'm tired of all of this. I agreed and said I too was tired. I said fine, we are coming to get it now. Since she was at work, I asked if she had a ride home. She said what do you care? So I said I guess I don't, on my way.

    And we went it got it. I also cancelled her phone, again she paid, she was under our family plan and we charged her $50 a month, way less if she was on her own. Again trying to help her. Doesn't matter to her, she thinks we are controlling.

    I saw on social media that she put,
    There you go, you got way you wanted. I hope I never have to deal with you again.

    My heart has been broken so many times with her actions or lack of care for me and her family. She has been very disrespectful, selfish and her choices are dangerous.

    I know I need to let go even more now. Any advice would be appreciated.
  2. Esri

    Esri Member

    From what I know she is smoking pot and dabbing. Yes, I had to look that up, never heard of it. It's liquid mariijuana that you smoke. Guess it's more potent.
  3. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I'm so sorry.

    I think it's a good idea to learn how to cope and stop offering your daughter money or cars.

    I would go to Al-Anon, like I did when my daughter was using. It helped me a lot.

    My thoughts are, she does not need a car, let alone a NEW car. Does she even work?

    You know in your heart, most likely, that she is not responsible and will never pay you back. And, of course, she is dangerous if she is on drugs and behind the wheel of a car. Potent pot may be legal pot, which is dangerous. She is probably posting mean stuff to you because she is pouting. You took away her fun. Most difficult children do this. We have to learn how to detach with love (see detachment article top of page).

    So sorry for your hurting heart. You can't help your daughter. Only she can help herself. But you can learn how to react differently to her and how to detach from her drama with love. And I'd stop looking at her FB.
  4. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Oh Ersi, I'm sorry, I understand your hurting heart. I remember you.

    I believe you made the right choice. She is 18. At 18, they believe they know everything and often perceive our care as control. She may have done you a favor before an accident occurred. Considering the drug use, it is a wise choice to take away the car and remove her from your insurance. At a certain point in time, it is a good idea to stop the money train to them. As I recall, your daughter chose to move out at 18. And, of course, it is hard for us parents to let go, but she is forcing the issue and you are responding well.

    At this point, I believe the most important thing you can do is to get support for yourself. Perhaps a 12 step group would work for you, Al Anon or Narc Anon or Families Anonymous or CoDa, whichever resonates with you. I believe we need a lot of help in letting go of our kids whether they leave on their own or we ask them to leave.

    Your daughter is NOT going to be happy about the choices you made. She is not going to thank you. She is going to blame you and likely not take any responsibility for her actions which caused you to respond the way you did. Expecting otherwise will be a set up for disappointment for you. You are in the process of changing a pattern with her, whether it is enabling or not, I don't know, but as they grow up, the way in which we parent has to change. Your daughter is insisting on being independent and she has to learn what that actually means. When she makes choices, there are consequences. In this scenario, the consequence is that it is your insurance and you cosigned, so you are ultimately responsible, so you have to protect yourself. It is a life lesson for her. If she works for her own car and her own phone, it will mean more to her.

    The process of letting go of our kids is hard. You likely read the article on detachment but if you haven't it's at the bottom of my post here.

    Hang in there Ersi, this is a process, it takes time and it takes us to change our responses to them. Get as much support as you can, read books, post here, begin looking at what makes you happy and what you want to do in your own life. Start focusing on you and what you want. Be very kind to yourself, do nurturing things for yourself. We're here if you need us..........
  5. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry you are hurting, Esri.

    So you saw she was using drugs, you called her on it, and she is not happy about it.

    Eighteen is young, but I totally agree that you cannot have her driving a car in your name when she is impaired. If she wants to drive a car in HER name impaired, under HER insurance, that's her (bad) choice. But she doesn't have the right to involve you. She knew that when she accepted the arrangement.

    I try to stay away from my kids' FB pages anymore. It seems all it does it allow me to see the drama played out for a different audience all over again.
  6. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member


    Think of it like this. She's doing drugs and being unsafe. All you did was help put the brakes on that. This is a good thing. You're slowing her down which is a good thing. Slowing her down means preventing her from a tragedy of her own making.

    Rest assure she is just being stubborn. She most likely will come around and be more reasonable and agree to your very reasonable rules. Sometimes , they do need to be reminded and it sometimes , it has to come down to taking their car away in order to get their attention. It just might take a few weeks. Telling you to come get her car seems more of a human nature strike of independence thing and not that she doesn't love you or her family.

    However, in my opinion, I wouldn't have turned off the phone. The issue was about the car and not the phone, especially since she is paying for the phone. Others may disagree with me, but that is my opinion. I think you went a little bit over the top in that regard.
  7. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Yep, GM, lol. I disagree. If you do drugs, at least in my house, I pay for nothing. This difficult child has a job and can pay for her own service. Apparently that's what she did. It's good for our adult kids to pay their own bills.

    We had a rule that if you did anything illegal, the money stopped. There is no reason for an adult child who has a job not to pay her own bills.

    When I first read the post, (to Esri) I skimmed over it and did not see that she had a job. That, at least, is a good thing. But I also agree that if your name is on the car and she does drugs, it is dangerous to keep on doing it. My daughter was in several serious car accidents that were drug related. If there had been cell phones back then (there were, but not everyone had one) we would have shut hers off too once we knew she was doing drugs. Sometimes they communicate with "bad" people that way. Why help her? Let her pay to communicate with bad influences.

    Anyhow, GM, I love you much, just don't agree on this issue. Please don't think I'm picking on you. I wouldn't do that. You have your idea and I have mine and it's not a big difference anyway. Your feelings and ideas are as valid as mine. ;)
  8. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    Well being as though a car and a phone are major necessities in this day in age, I just think it was a little much to take both in one fell swoop. She should have a least gotten some notice about the phone. It seems taking the phone away was more out of anger in the moment than about driving around impaired. If I went to go take my daughters car from her while she was at work, I would have made sure she at least had a phone to call for rides or any other emergency that might arise. Also, you mention she might be communicating with bad people that way, but what about the good? I'm sure very important people have her phone number who might need to get into contact with her such as her job, school, doctor's, etc. etc. I'm sorry, I just wouldn't have canceled my daughters phone and if I thought I should, I would at least give her a week to make other arrangements. I wouldn't leave my daughter without a car or a phone all in one night. That's just me though.

    Edit: Ersi, I know that sounds harsh but I honestly don't mean it to be. Please forgive me if it does. I am 100% with you on taking away her car as I said earlier.

    I appreciate you saying this, it means a lot. I think you and I have come to a mutual understanding and can disagree with each other without it meaning anything wrong or ill intentioned by it. I feel we agree on many things and there are some things we strongly disagree about. It happens.
  9. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    How did you see that she was not clean? You didn't say.

    And I do remember you, however, I needed to read up on your older posts to get more of a refresher , so I am now all nice and up to date.

    In my opinion, your daughter doesn't seem to be in such bad shape as you fear she may be. I remember me and a few other people in your previous posts agreed that you were being a little too controlling and I say this with love. Have you done any soul searching with that?

    Edit: and if you go back and read your previous posts, you were certain that she wasn't going to be able to make the car payments, but six months later, she still has been making them without missing one. So she is exceeding your expectations. She is paying for her cell phone bill as well. She has a job. You say she hasn't asked you for any help since she has moved out which was in June 2014, which in my opinion is a GREAT thing. Congrats to your daughter. She hasn't gotten into any legal trouble, no accidents, no tickets, etc. etc.... So she seems to be doing ok from what I see.

    I'm wondering if you are giving her credit where credit is due?
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  10. Esri

    Esri Member

    I saw a picture of her 'pipes' and liquor bottles she was bragging about dabbing on nye in twiter. Yea, I shouldn't look, but I did. I never told her I saw that picture.

    She does have a job, she lives with her boyfriend.

    She choose to move out. While I was out of town.

    She calls in to work sick a lot, her boss asked for a note from a doctor the last time she did. I said that can't be good, if she's asking this if you. Are you calling in a lot.? Her response, 'well I get people to cover for me' She really didn't understand that was still not ok. Not my place to say, right?

    She came to my house high this summer. I called her out on it. She begged me not to tell my husband and I didn't. Another one of my mistakes. So I know she has driven under the influence in the past.

    The loan for her car in in our name as is the insurance. This was to help her not control her. Yes, she was paying. But we had to ask several times for the money and even had to pay a couple times ourselves so the payment wouldn't be late.

    She told me to take the effing car and take her off our phone plan.

    She must be fine without her phone because she texted me right after, 'thanks for canceling my phone now I'll have less bills'

    And I looked at her Twitter just now. she de friended me in FB. Don't care.

    "I know you'll see this - f&&& you and don"t you dare try to ever contact me again." What a sweetheart, right!

    Yea, I'll give her some credit.

    I tried and tried. She has pushed me away for longer than I think I even realize.

    I was seeing a therapist but she is relocating to a new job. I may have to look into this done more and see someone else.

    I do have family a friends for support. My husband too. But I don't know if they truly know how much this hurts like you all do.

    Thanks for your kind words and advice. I will consider it all.
  11. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member


    I think you keep focusing on the negative, which in all reality, isn't' that bad besides the smoking weed and drinking part (which most young adults do). Let's just put that issue aside right now because you're right, she should NOT be doing it while driving especially.

    She graduated High School. She has a job, that is great. She never missed one car payment, car insurance payment or cell phone payment. She lives with her boyfriend, ok....not exactly earth shattering news about an 18 year old.

    Again, she is 18 years old. Maybe she didn't go about it the best way, but maybe you two weren't getting along at the time and there was no good communication. The fact of the matter is, she is 18 and moved. Most of us can't get our difficult child's out of the house. Furthermore, she doesn't ask you for any help.

    It WOULD be your place to say if she was still living with you, not paying any rent, being irresponsible, not working or she was asking you for money, then it would be YOUR say. I would be saying totally different things to you right now if your daughter wasn't independent or living on her own. But since none of the above is happening, you don't have a say anymore mom. You just don't.

    You also said this same thing back in August, (about her calling in alot or getting other people to work for her) so are you talking about the same incident? Because the issue has obviously been resolved if she is still is working there and even if she is not working there anymore, she obviously found another job, again which is a good thing. She's working.

    Ok, well she broke the agreement and you did the right thing by taking her car. You gave her another chance and she blew it.

    Well, again, at least she is paying it. She is 18 years old, she is still learning. You cannot expect instant responsible adult. I mean, compared to most of our difficult child's , she seems to be doing pretty well. Again, just trying to get you to focus on the positive.

    Me and a few other members have broached this subject (about controlling) with you a few times. I even did again tonight in this thread, but I haven't seen you respond to it yet. So, I ask again, have you examined yourself to see if you are a bit controlling? See where your faults in this may lye in the matter? None of us here are perfect parents and we all need to examine ourselves and our wrong doings, as much as we examine our difficult child's and their wrong doings, that is, if we want a happy and loving relationship with our children. I know I do, even though I know it's going to take a lot of work, but it won't work unless my daughter and myself are willing to work on ourselves along with everything else that has to be worked on.

    However, now you're free of each other. She gave you back your car and told you to cancel her phone. She has detached from you and this should make it easier for you to detach from her. Hopefully you both can rebuild your relationship on a clean slate and you can redefine your role in her life as a mother of an adult, not of a child.
  12. Esri

    Esri Member

    Have I examined myself? Yea I sure have. This isn't about control. I need to protect my family.

    I am trying t control what I can not her as a person.

    Has she paid her bills, yup. But she broke an important agreement. Why should we risk loosing our house because she makes poor choices. She is free to get her own car and insurance. Won't stop her.

    Look at the positives? Which part?
    Where she told me to :censored2: off and never contact her again?

    This calling into work business is at a different job, my earlier post was a different job and she got fired.

    I'll be sure to add more details for you so you can tell me what a great kid she is compared to others in here.

    Didn't know she had to be homeless and jobless to come here.

    I'll be leaving now. Thanks for the support and making me feel much better. (Sarcasm there)
  13. Esri

    Esri Member

    Oh yes! We are free of each other. I guess I should celebrate the fact my daughter is free of me.
  14. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    I never said you did. I said , quite a few times, you are making the right choice in taking her car away. I never implied anything different.

    All the positives that I listed. She told you to eff off because you had a conflict, an argument. I promise you my daughter has said worse to me than that. My daughter has said things that would make yours look like a saint if eff off is the worse she ever said. I'm not saying that to try to one up you on who has the worse daughter, LOL. I'm saying that to make you feel better and relieved that your daughter isn't as bad as you think she is. It could be WORSE, believe me.

    But she has a job now, correct? She went out and got another job. That is a positive. At least she is trying. Again, positive.

    Well, you never really gave us much detail to begin with so you can't fault me for that. You said in your first post on this forum that you wouldn't go into much detail. So how are we suppose to help if we don't know all the details? So far by what you gave us, in my humble opinion, isn't horrible per say. Sure, it could be much better, no doubt, but you know.

    Can you give us a little more specifics to the story so we could all help you better?

    Is she stealing or has she ever stole from you or others? Is she or has she physically abused you? Is she abusing others? Is she doing hard core drugs? Is she not working? Does she have an illegitimate child? Does she get into car wrecks? Speeding Tickets? Ever been arrested? Mental Illness or mental handicaps?

    Now wait a minute, I would never imply that. That's not fair. I am just trying to help YOU and your daughter. Sometimes, we are direct on this forum and hope that you can show some grace around that because our intentions are only to help. You can take what you want and leave the rest. You can put me on ignore if you must. No worries. Again, my intentions were only to help.
  15. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    If Daughter wants a car and a phone, she can pay for them. They are not necessities. Even if they were, she is eighteen and is being disrespectful...I would not keep supporting a daughter who told me to eff off. The only kid I had out of five, including the-one-who-left-home who even swore directly at me was 37 and he tried to threaten me to. He was eighteen when he left, by my request, and he only got what I wanted him to get. This was not about controlling him. This was about taking my power back from him. In fact he was not only controlling ME, but everyone in the house. in my opinion he suffered reasonable consequences for treating me that way in my own house. He had the option of following our rules, but he didn't. Oh, well.

    Most here are working toward having a good life while detaching from our difficult children and their drama, and learning how to say "no." We make individual choices about what is right or wrong. I personally think Esri is doing a great job. My house/my rules. My money/my rules. Her daughter, and all of our difficult children, will find the same in every walk of life.

    We all set our own boundaries. We all know what is right for us. What is right for one may not be right for another. Never in a million years would I give a dime to anyone who treated me like garbage. For a while, I didn't even want to hear from 37. If he called, I panicked. He is nicer to me now. I feel he is respecting me. I know I respect him and my other kids.

    There is no excuse for anybody abusing us, unless we don't mind it. I do mind it. Most of us here mind it.
    Not everyone thinks it's ok to tell a person to eff off because they are "only" eighteen. I don't. I have never heard that from anyone other than 37. Not even my Daughter said that to me while she was on drugs. She said the eff word, but not often and not about me.

    I feel we do our adult children no favors by excusing their bad behaviors. It can set up a lifelong pattern of their abusing us and it doesn't teach them how to live in the world. We don't talk that way to them; we deserve the same. At least, I hope we don't talk to anyone that way.

    Anyhow, Esri I think you're heading in the right direction. I would have done what you did, at any rate. Take care.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  16. You did the right thing regarding the car. I am sorry that it has not been better but at least you know what she is doing. We only get rumors once in a while. Maybe she just need some time to adjust to adulthood on her own.

    I don't know what to say to make you feel better. I guess that we as parents always will second-guess what we did wrong when we in fact did what we felt best at the moment.
  17. Esri

    Esri Member

    I apologize for coming off as rude or not appreciative.

    Right now I don't see the positives other than she is alive.
  18. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    You feel what you feel. You don't have to feel appreciation for the little things yet. You will if they turn into long turn, positive issues. Many times we feel negatively about our grown children who are giving us grief.

    You feel what you feel.

    It is what it is.

    Don't beat yourself up. Most of us cry a lot over our grown kids and don't just accept it when we first start our journey. It takes YEARS.

    I'm into radical acceptance, which helps me accept what reality is. But that doesn't stop the pain. It just cuts down the suffering. Practicing this concept has changed t he way I look at things and my life is much better for it. Here is a link for you. Maybe it can help you:

  19. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Esri, I am glad you came back. I thought we'd lost you.

    My take on it: I have bent over backward, stretched a boundary until it snapped like some rotten, meaningless thing, and found my kids taking it further. I am so different than the mother I was, than the mothers of my kids' friends.

    My kids got in to drugs and my values changed.

    I am the original "I can think us through this."

    It doesn't work.

    The time comes, for all of us, when finally we need to stand up to our kids. difficult child son became verbally abusive over the years and I was so into backing up and justifying and rewarding crummy, illegal behavior that it took a miracle to get me to acknowledge just how far I had fallen into denial and self blame and etc. Without the ladies here on the site, I may never have stood up and reclaimed my right to respect.

    That is how far I had slipped. I felt so bad about my kids, about what happened. I took the blame instead of blaming them.

    I am only just now starting to pull myself together.

    My kids did willingly do self-destructive things,

    I lost my sense of humor for the longest time, lost my sense of efficacy, lost my belief in the good outcome ~ which just goes back to that sense of efficacy thing.

    So I think Esri is correct. The daughter pushed. Esri had two choices: Cave, or don't cave. The daughter is still pushing.

    I am fighting to get to that place where I get to say: "We agreed we would help you if you did thus and so and you didn't and I have proof and I am done."

    It was very rude of the daughter to behave as she has. This too tells me Esri is correct in her assessment and response to this child.

    Esri's child will not starve.

    She needs to learn these lessons about who her mother is and that her mother means what she says, and Esri my hat is off to you.

    You are right. Your child is testing the edge of a slippery slope. Stand your ground. Giving in to them does not change what they do. It just costs us money and time and self awareness, as we slither down that slope beside them trying to pretend everything is okay.

    Guide Me, you know I find you terminally cool.


    Just on this one, I disagree. Part of the fire in it for me is the lengths I have fallen to myself, trying to keep with my children as they destroyed themselves and me.

    It is a morning for telling the truth.

  20. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    She is gaslighting you on this one. Trust me, she needs you, more than you "need" her. :smiley_simmons:
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