Well, this hasnt happened for a while. Stunned.


Well-Known Member
I am really starting to wonder about if it was worth it to try so hard when, to two of my kids, nothing was or is enough. With Gonenoy, he had problems before I met him...I get it. With Bart, I really don't.

For two straight years I have been talking to him every day trying .to keep him going while his ex takes him to court as she has always wanted my grandson to just belong to her. Wellll, it didnt work last time (and it was not fun to listen to Bart take his anxiety snd frustration out on me) but I did all I could to make it easier for him with emotional support. And it took a lot out if me. That was one whole year. I hoped that was it. Haha. Not so lucky.

She took him back to court after she moved out of Juniors school district to try to move Grandson to her school district,which is pretty far away. Bart had moved a few years ago to be in the school district that Junior goes to currently. So the gloves were off again for residential custody. He has a good lawyer. she is pro se and NOT bright, but he is still nervous.

She won't win...the judge isnt going to remove him from his school just because she is trying to make Bart be the one to drive an hour to school. She moved, not him. Bart has this in the bag and because of her iffy behavior his excellent lawyer thinks the judge could grant him legal custody too. So he wont lose but hes still freaking out because tomorrow is pre trial.

I told him I wouldnt be home today to talk to him because hubby, me, Sonic and Jumper were postponing Fathers Day to today since Jumper had to work last weekend and yesterday. We all went to her spartment, to the lake, then out to eat. It was so much fun.

Little did I realize that Bart was at his home, stewing.

Bart has no interest in his siblings and no relationshp with them. it is as if they dont exist to him. Maybe that explains his tirade tonight and this is not verbatim. I stayed up late, as promised, so I could talk to him late into the night, until he could get tired and sleep before his big day in court. I thought he knew all this. When I called at 9:30, which is late for me to not be half asleep, he greeted me something like this: (think loud voice and angry tone for the right effect):

"You didn't have to go see Jumper today. She didnt need you. I am the one who needed you. I am the one who is being tortured. You shouldnt have gone. I needed uou today. F#!/ Fathers Day! I had a torturous day, but you werent there. There is some sort of hierarchy (yes, this word was used) and I am at the top today. You should have canceled your @$#/ plans to he home fir me to talk to! I'm going to try yo sleep now. Thanks a lot. BYE!"

He hasnt done this for a long time.

I can not put him in front of my entire family. I make time for him, but this had been planned for a long time. I have a great husband. I cant dismiss our Fathers Day si that I could stay on the phone all day to soothe Barts nerves. It would have been silly and wrong, right?

I try hard to help Bart, but this court case is not the only thing on MY plate. I have four kids and they all deserve my time and the other three never biotch like this. For ANY reason.

I am glad that a I can handle this stuff now, but I'm sad that he can be so selfish. I love him and Junior dearly, but I have a busy life and he is pushing 40 years old.

There is a little more, bit thats the gist of it. I'm very disappointed in our conversation and am going to give him less phone time from now on. This isn't the first time he complained I gutted his time to give undeserved time to others in my life. I feel this was very disrespectful.

I did not say much. I let him go on until he got off. "Less is more." My motto. I know better than to try to converse when he us this way.

I hope he lets me know how court goes tomorrow, but if he doesnt, he doesnt. I have things to do and am not happy with him right now.

Thanks for being a place where I can vent.
Last edited:


Well-Known Member
SWOT, I am sorry Bart lashed out at you tonight. What he did was wrong, using you as a target for his stress, but very human. You know he is strung tight and this is what he does.

I will only say this which is after all only my opinion. My son would probably prefer it if I sent M packing. Why? He would be able to dominate me more easily, and manipulate me, and I would be over my head dealing with him. I could have never become stronger without M in the picture. A stronger me means less power for my son.

While I believe my son is coming around to seeing that having M is good for me, and good for him and good for all of us--he is coming to see us as a unit and a family, I still think he is resentful. It is more M and I feeling my son is in our family, than my son really embracing the idea of the 3 of us.

That said, I think it is a good thing for my son to have to conform to the reality of the change. That is to say, the reality for my son is that there is no Mom without M. We come as a package deal. No house, without M. No Copa without M, either.

Because as long as I am with M, M and I are a unit. My son deals with us, the two of us. Or not. His choice.

So what I am saying indirectly is that it seems as if Bart has been able to have you, without accepting the whole package, not his siblings or even his step-father, it seems. And I wonder if that has been the right thing for you, or even the right thing for Bart, let alone Junior who seems to have never had even the possibility of knowing his family beyond his grandma.

If I am being critical, It comes from a place of caring. You have gone the mile for Bart. Bart needs to go half a mile for you. Not insult you because you do not do 100 percent his way.


Well-Known Member
Thanks for promptly and intelligently answering, my wise friend.

Your son thinks like mine in a way only Bart would like me to have nobody in my life except him. And he knows he has to accept the others, but he doesnt always like it.

You are being very logical actually. Bart accepts me and ex. To him, along with J., that is his family. He doesn't and never tries to know his siblings. He doesnt see anybody,really,because he wont drive up to where the family meets...Chicago. My grandson will know me a little, but its hard for me to get to St. Louis. My ex goes down there often...so my grandson sees him. Thats it. Ex is retired and has time and money to go.

Bart is always invited to join us at family gatherings and he wont come. Yes, my grandson won't know anyone well except his dad and one grandfather. It's a shame. But I cant control him. Hes phobic about driving long distances and has lots of reasons why he also cant take the train. Cant make him do it.

You really hit the nail on the head. I appreciate it being able to look at it from this perspective.

Have a peaceful night.
Last edited:

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Maybe he was mad because he'd been having a temper tantrum all day and no one knew it but him. And to make matters worse, his own mother, who should have been there listening to him have a temper tantrum, was actually out in the world all day doing healthy things with people she loves.

Oh, that Bart.


What a rotten end to a beautiful weekend. You had posted about postponing Father's Day, and about looking forward to the weekend with your peeps, on the Morning Thread. After a weekend filled with travel and lake time and family, 9:30 would have been very late for me, too.

Still, you called him, and were willing to talk to him until he could sleep.

You are a great mom.

I would have waited until Monday. Seriously, I would have been sound asleep by 9:30. This brings to mind that old saying about the mother and the mixer: Good mothers let their children lick the beaters. Great mothers turn them off, first.


Maybe that is what is going on, here. Our sons are chronically exhausted from throwing temper tantrums their mothers no longer have time to schedule in. No one witnesses their tantrums anymore and so, they don't know when to stop. By the time their mothers finally call them, the poor things only have enough energy left to spout a few bad words and fall asleep.

SWOT. Excellent technique.

You are my hero.



one day at a time
I am sorry SWOT. I know that must hurt. Like we discuss on this forum in so many situations, we cannot save people or make their worlds right for them. If they cannot accept what we decide to give, that doesn't mean we need to give more or do something different. This is the very meat of boundary work. He stepped way way over a boundary last night that was already very very generous. To me, that is a signal to further move the boundary...toward you.

In time he can hear from you about why or through your actions, he will experience it. You don't even have to say anything.

Staying up late is putting yourself out for someone else if that isn't what you normally do. Listening to someone rant and rave about their problems is something I rarely choose to do anymore. Last night (very small example) Difficult Child called me and wanted to tell me how unfair Home Depot had been to him not wanting to take a lifetime guaranteed tool back. I am okay with listening to a short mention of something like that but I have little interest in a long discussion about it and quite frankly that is life so deal with it is my feeling especially with a Difficult Child. I know your situation is way different here SWOT but I find that I will very shortly say oh wow someone is at the door I'm sure you will figure it out honey.

Being empathetic and caring to someone is one thing but being their go to person for a bunch of emotional hand holding and ranting and raving for me is just something I'm not interested in doing much anymore. I think I got my fill of it after being way too involved with people like that for years and years.

Hang in there and take your power back here. Having said that I hope the hearing goes well today for your precious grandchild. Warm hugs SWOT.


Well-Known Member
thanks, Cedar.

He doesnt throw temper tantrums. He ruminates over worst case scenarios nonstop and gets into chronic panic that affects him physically and emotionally. I spoke to him often this week and weekend and he knew about my plans and asked me to change them. I firmly said he csn call me before I go or after, but that I am going.

There is not much I wont do for my adult kids if they ask politely, but this request was not doable. It was our Fathers Day and it was supposed to be on Saturday, which Bart was okay with (thanks for the permission...lol). But then Jumpers schedule got changed and we decided to do it on her only day off.

Look, he isnt sixteen and it isn't my fault he married who he married. I have been his main support for two years. His way of dealing with stress is to talk non stop. He needs a therapist badly for his anxiety. He did GREAT when he was seeing one. But, he claims, he makes too much for low cost clinics. The psycologists (he will not see anyone who has less education than PhD) really don't cater to after work patients, and he has already taken off more than he should for court and his insurance has a high deductable.

That leaves me. He doesnt have a group of man friends. His girlfriend often works weekends (which makes him angry) and he wont do to any type of group. Like the recovering d c he is, he still shares many traits with all the adult kids here. He cant, he won't, he cant, he won't.

I have a busy life and lots of family peeps. I try to accomodate him and make time, but I cant always put him first. I can just imagine this:

"Husband dear, we cant do fathers day as planned because I have to stay home in case Bart wants to talk to me about his court case tomorrow."

My husband isn't a big Bart fan as it is because he knows he can be disrespectful. Sonic and Jumper, the others involved, consider him like Gone boy. He never tried to know them and was out if the house by the time they were in school.

He IS a good father and I hope he hears what he wants to hear today in court. id actually BE there if he hadnt high tailed off to Missouri. I told him I'd be lucky to see him once a year if he went there. its hard to get there from mid Wisconsin by train or bus, requires tranfers and getting in at 12am.bAfter my accounts dent I wont drugs ve twelve hours plus I have a challenging sense of direction.

Thanks for responding. This was more a vent than anything else.
Last edited:


Well-Known Member
I can not put him in front of my entire family. I make time for him, but this had been planned for a long time. I have a great husband. I cant dismiss our Fathers Day si that I could stay on the phone all day to soothe Barts nerves. It would have been silly and wrong, right?
Absolutely 100% Right!

You have a right to a life of your own. You have other family members. He doesn't get to keep you at his beck and call. You weren't there for him yesterday? What on earth was yesterday? NOTHING.

In fact, today is pretty much nothing too.

Pre-trial conferences are simply to catch the court up on any developments, make sure all the discovery has been done so that the trial is ready to go, and give the lawyers one last settlement opportunity. It is NOT the trial. There should be no major decisions unless it's to continue the case to another day.

He's made himself crazy, and you miserable, for nothing.

This isn't the first time he complained I gutted his time to give undeserved time to others in my life. I feel this was very disrespectful.
And it is. He sounds like a 3 year old who keeps getting in mom's face when she's trying to have a conversation. Me, me, me, me, me - It's all about ME! At 40 years old you'd think he's past it.

I'm so sorry you had such a cruddy ending to such a lovely day. Try to think on the lovely time you had and to put that conversation out of your mind.


Well-Known Member
Lil, thanks so much. With all youre going through, I cherish that you gave me time.

Bart know what a pretrial is, but he gets rattled just at the thought of going into a courthouse. I cant help him. I'm not there.

Bart does think he should come first. And, yes, he is almost 40 so its sad. This already put a damper on my good time yesterday, but Im moving on today. I cant always be his unpaid psychologist. He needs to find a real one.

Thanks again. Have a great day!


Well-Known Member
SWOT, I am glad you are able to move that BS right on out of there and get back to your day. You put yourself out there for him, after a long and tiring and fun day. You were available and empathetic. And you got blasted for it.

What exactly was he expecting? There was nothing to be done (other than by his attorney) and certainly nothing you could do.

I agree 100% that it would have been silly and wrong to sit by the phone all day and soothe the nerves of 40-year-old Bart. I love Cedar's response and think it is perfect.


Well-Known Member
take your power back here
SWOT. I agree with the others. I do not think you should overlook how Bart talked to you and tried to hurt you. I agree with your husband. Bart should show respect and consider your feelings, not just use you as a therapist and a punching bag.


100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

So sorry that your son treated you that way. Why do our children think that since we're the "mom" we can just deal with anything they throw at us? I don't get that. We are not the super humans they think we are!!

He was being very selfish but I'm sure you know that. I agree, at his age you'd expect him to be better able to handle the way he talks to you. Does he have any friends etc. that he can talk to about such things? My husband tells our son not to unload on me because I can't take it; to talk to one of the other guys, his girlfriend or whatever.

Hang in there!!


Well-Known Member
My husband tells our son not to unload on me because I can't take it; to talk to one of the other guys, his girlfriend or whatever.
Ultimately, we are responsible to deal with what is happening to us. Even though it is not our fault or even responsibility.

Sorry SWOT. I hope this is not hijacking your thread. Maybe this will help you in deciding how to respond to Bart.

So, you know I am back to work. Actually, you know what? I will start my own thread.


Well-Known Member
lol Copa. Its ok.Thanks for the support, both.

I am not going to talk to him for a few days and only if he us nice.

I dont want my husband involved. It's not his kid. I can handle it myself. Yes, Copa it is what I can handle and that degree of childishness and selfishness is not something I want in my life. I cannot drop everything and talk to him on the phone for hours.

RN, he does not have outside-of-work friends, does not engage his siblings, does have a kind of girlfriend who works crazy hours and he cant talk to my ex because ex is bad at knowing how to make people feel better.

I saw a divorce group in a church near his house and encouraged him to go. In fact, I encoursge church in general for him. Of course he wont go to this place where he could make friends because "Groups dont help me and Im not religious." I told him it's about making friends and he just says that it won't work and he doesn't want relgious friends.

You all know how it goes. Every suggestion is met with a bad attitude and a hundred reasons why the suggestion is not a good one.

Copa do go on with your thoughts about work. I am hoping you feel better about work. I hope you are beng treated better.i

Tanya M

Living with an attitude of gratitude
Staff member
I'm so sorry you had to listen to him vent like that. Even a grown man can revert to child like behavior when he wants his mom.
It was very selfish the way he responded and I would hope that deep down inside he understands that you have other kids that are just as important.
I do hope things will go well in court. I don't understand why she has to keep coming after him. It's just sad.

((HUGS)) to you.........