Would you wrongfully apoligize to stay on good terms with somebody.

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by SomewhereOutThere, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I was sitting around with a few of my friends and the conversation grew serious. One of my dear friends, who is a younger woman, lives on and off with her mother. Her mother wants and needs help, but is pretty awful. I have met her, we all have. My friend is a saint to help her. She doesnt appreciate it and often when they are in a car together (mom doesnt drive) her mother starts telling her how selfish she is and that she is ugly which is why she never married (not true. She was engaged but broke it off). Once, thinking nobody would believe how her mother talked to her and wanting validation, she recorded this with her phone.

    She still loves her mother dearly.

    Now her mother wont talk to her and she feels very frantic and scared about it. Apparently her sister told her mom she was sleeping around and her mother believed it and cut her off telling her sister that until she goes to church with her, confesses, promises to never sleep around again, apologizes and comes clean about the men that they can never speak or see one another again, even on holidays. The two other sisters are now driving Mom around and tending to her needs and they wont talk to this friend either. Mother claims to and puts on an act of being a Christian. Friend is just spiritusl, not any religion.

    The whole rumor started because ex told her sister she slept around (not so nicely put) and that this is why HE broke up with her (a lie).

    Her family believed it. She was always the scapegoat so now she is out and very distraught. I am afraid she is suicidal. Yet she has said that she would never do what her mother says in order to get semi included in her family again. I am not sure I believe she can or will hold off forever and do not want such a nice woman, only 41, killing herself. Oh yea. Her 20 year old son was tossed out of the family too but he doesnt seem to care.

    This made all of us think and talk about it. I once repeatedly, even in loving letters, apologized to my mother hoping to make her love me. Yet I never knew why I was apologizing and felt that she needed to apologize for her abuse. It didnt work to lie/apologize and I swore I would never ever apologize again if, in my gut, I knew I wasnt at fault. Ever.

    And I never did or will. Not to brother who is only nice to me if sister is (although he told me he can form his own opinion or maybe he bought sisters lies) and who I never did anything bad to, or to deranged sister who called the cops on me all the time and cut me off a million times for petty reasons and who probably thinks I owe her some apology and she doesnt owe me any. I wont do it even to make peace. After the mother thing, I take responsibility, BUT only when I know I should. And I told the group. We all told experiences to each other and opinions.

    There were varying opinions. Some said they might do it just to make peace. It depended. Most said no way. We talked for a few hours then it broke up and I am left to think and worry.

    I worry sbout my friend. She was so distraught. She DOES have a therapist and all of us. I hope thats enough. She is timid and wants to please people and not seeing her mom and sisters is hard on her. Even though they are not nice to her. I get it, sadly. Once that was me.

    I could never do what she is being asked to do but I was not half as strong at 40 as I am now. Could you ever imagine doing this? I should add that this woman doesnt even flirt with guys. Although I cant know for sure, I believe her that the only man she was ever with was her boyfriend. Maybe due to my own experiences, my heart breaks when people have to go through nonsense like this with people who should love them. Not everyone can deal with it.

    Would you ever do the demands this mother asked?
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  2. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    I only perused.
    Generally speaking, I don’t think I would.
    This goes double if the person is abusive to me.
    I’m sure there are very rare exceptions.
  3. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    I can't answer your question but I can offer some advice. Perhaps convincing her to take a step back and wait it out for a few weeks before she makes a decision on whether or not to apologize will help? Luckily, there are no important big family holidays for the next 3 months (Thanksgiving).

    Ask her to make a date to make a decision by, on whether or not she wants to apologize to her mother and do what her mother asks her to do. Having a date is like a goal and gives people some peace while they get time to think.

    Is she married? Or is she single and alone? Being a single woman myself, I understand how hard it is to be alone.

    It must be so hard to be attacked that way by her mother and her sisters. It must be beyond agonizing that they would stoop so low as to use her ex's accusations agains her that they know aren't true to hurt her.

    The whole thing disturbs to me no end but what disturbs me the most is that the mother is demanding to know who it is that she slept with. There are no words. Wish I could be of more help.
  4. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I do too. Thank you, Wish. Telling her to wait is a good response, I think because she is too wound up now to be rational.

    This woman was only engaged to this man. Her son was from a short relationship in which she was very hurt. Again. The father never saw his son much and married soon after his sons birth moving far away.

    I dont know and she doesnt know if her sisters really believe the ex about her sleeping around. But they knew that telling it to her fake religious mother, who has divorced twice before, would cause a bad scene for her. Her mother pretends to be a pious Catholic and you had better never point out her two divorces.

    My biggest fear is that she may take her life over this.

    Thanks for your good advice Wish. I will call her tomorrow to remind her she has time to think about it. And to offer to take her for a cup of coffee if she wants to talk more. My daughter is in from Chicao but she never wakes up really early so friend and I can do the coffee early. We both get up very early.

    Love and light!
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  5. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    What is she going to do; go to confession and LIE to the Priest? She could tell her mom she'll never sleep around (again?) but what men will she come clean about when there isn't any?

    I don't know what to say here. She'll literally have to LIE to her mom and make up names and men I guess, in order to have her mom forgive her for something she didn't do? I can't even begin to imagine that.

    I'd like to say I would never do such a thing. That I'd stand up and tell my mother the truth - that I did NOTHING, that the ex is LYING and that Sisters and Mother have NO reason to believe it. That there is no proof because I did nothing wrong and I refuse to go to church and LIE before God in order to confess to something I didn't do.

    But, I don't know what I would actually do. It's easy to say you'd stand up for yourself even if it means being ostracized when you grew up with parents who gave you truly unconditional love and would never, ever, ever have believed you did something without proof if you denied it...and even if they did believe it, they'd have never turned on you for making a mistake. It's easy say when you have no family to speak of anyway, your parents are long gone and you don't spend time with the rest anyway. It's easy when you have in-laws and a husband to be with.

    What a sad, sad thing this is. SWOT, I truly hope she get through this.
  6. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Lil, it is really heartbreaking. She already denied it but they refuse to listen. They are truly vile.

    I went out for coffee with her at 9am and she sounded stronger and angry. I think its good she is showing some anger rather than just desperation.

    In the end, all I can do is be there. This is her sad path. Her son is helpful. He urges her to just see it as crazy and move on, that they dont need them. He is a calm and smart young man who really loves her and tries to care for her in between going to a local college and working. He still lives with her and his presence helps. They are very close.
  7. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    You're welcome Swot.

    This is neither here nor there, but it just made me think of my grandparents situation. My grandmother who is a devout Catholic herself, never divorced my grandfather, no matter how badly she wanted to over the decades. I have no idea whether your friend's mother had any choice in her divorces, but it just made me think of my grandparents situation. If you are Catholic and divorced, you are not allowed to have a Catholic funeral and my grandmother would never have that.
  8. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    What a great son she has. Her situation could be a lot worse if she had a difficult child to boot. Having her son being caring and supportive of her means all the difference in the world in situations like these. Urge her to be cautious of not taking her son and his care for granted (unintentionally of course). She could wind up pushing him away and I'm sure that would be even worse for her. It's important that she doesn't wear him out with this. Maybe being reminded of this will help her become a lot stronger.
  9. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Thanks for your always smart feedback, Wish. I really like her son. He is what keeps her going. And his life was not easy....very poor for lots of it, absent father, but he does have a good relationship with his father's mother, although she lives far away. His grandmother has helped both of them out and is helping pay for college and is very upset that her son has nothing to do with his son. She does what she can from a distance. She is a friend to my friend, bless her.

    My friend often says she would kill herself but cant do that to Son. He is an angel for her and is keeping her from doing what can not be undone. I need to remind her of her blessings. That is what always helped me in the face of family of origin snubbing. Its powerful to focus on your blessings. She has friends too. She isnt alone.
  10. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    I wish nothing but the best for them both. Do let us know what eventually happens.
  11. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    FWIW, I can only perceive this situation from my own similar experience. My younger sister, whom I raised (who is mentally ill) has accused everyone in my bio family of horrific abuses for the last 20 years. Over time she moved all of her blame onto me (I raised her). She contacted me recently after not speaking to me for years stating that now was the time for me to come clean about her fabricated accusations...if I did that, she would then forgive me and we could move on. I refused. I am not willing to admit to something I did not do in order for another to feel good about whatever nonsense they believe. That would be a remarkable act of self abandonment. I knew my choice would end my connection with my sister, but she had already ended it years before, I had already lost her to mental illness. It was not an easy choice, but it was really, the ONLY choice for me.

    I wish your friend well, I know how hard these decisions are, but I hope she chooses to live her truth.
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  12. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    I would suggest she make an appointment to talk to the familys priest. She could explain the situation to him, tell him she would like to work things out with her mother and sisters, and see if he is able to help.

    She can confess to what sins she feels need to be confessed. She can tell her mom she confessed to her priest and has done her penance. Her mom doesn't need to know what she confessed to.

    She can tell her mom she feels much better now. And then keep her family at a safe distance. Bearing false witness, gossiping, etc...is also a sin.

    I am not Catholic, but confession is a private thing...not a group activity. She can simply tell her mother that she talked to the priest, made amends, and just say, I know you are worried about my soul, but God has forgiven me and He is all that matters and this issue is behind me. Ksm
  13. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I will suggest that, KSM. I dont think she is comfortable in churches but its a hood idea if she wants to pacify her family and ake nice.
  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    This is a tragic story looked at one way. As long as this foo remains her center of gravity, she will suffer.

    There is a very bad word in psychology for what this mother is doing. It's called a schizophrenogenic mother. There was a time stupid idiot psychology blamed mothers for contributing to their child's schizophrenia by putting them in double binds.

    What this means is what this mom is doing. Forcing her adult child to cut off her nose to spite her face.

    The thing is that this mom for sure did the same thing when this woman was a child.

    So the repetition is traumatic. It triggers countless other similar memories. And the mother set up the dynamic of betrayal among the sisters.

    This situation would NOT be tragic if, as others have said, this woman could locate her self esteem and her locus of control in her real family, the loving relationship she has with her child.

    But I for one know how hard this is.

    You are a loving and caring friend, swot.
  15. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I never heard of anything like this before. I cant relate to it well because if it had happened to me, and as bad as things were I was never asked to lie or be banished, I know I would have needed counseling and help but I had a strong sence of self preservation and I would have kicked them to the curb. It would not have been.easy. it would have been very hard and I would have felt guilty, even though I hadnt done anything wrong but I would have been done with the lot.

    Her mother trained her to do her bidding so she did. She did let her mom abuse her without defending herself. Her sisters I have not met, but they sound like pieces of work. Mother is perfect to the sisters. This daughter is the problem. Always has been. According to her.

    Even if she gives in, I am pretty sure she will be treated like dirt.

    I think her son may be able to talk sense into her. I sure hope so. Like me, but even worse, she never had a loving family. It is sad to accept but for her happiness she needs to do so I think. Her son knows that. Will be calling her tonight to check.

    I feel like calling her mom to tell her off but would never do that. Still...I have conversations in my head with this woman who is near my age.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  16. Triedntrue

    Triedntrue Active Member

    I agree with ksm about approaching the priest for help but not telling her mother she confessed. That just validates what the mother believes. I agree with others who do not feel she should capitulate. Does she see a councelor? I agree you are a good friend. I also agree that giving it some time might help but not if it is stressing her further to do so. Has she read the article on detachment?
    Has she had any encouragement to detach from these toxic people.
  17. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    That makes me so sad.

    You know, it wouldn't be a bad idea.....

    I know you can't actually tell her off, but you can try and just talk to her on your friends behalf. I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

    You can say something along the lines of "I am wanting to speak to you on my friends behalf. You have to agree that three against one is never fair so this is why I feel I have to step in and say something here...." and then tell her how you really feel about the situation. I have done this for a friend before with her family and even if they don't hear you all the way out, even if they hang up on you, usually they retreat a lot and back off the victim when they realize the victim isn't alone. It's becomes too easy for bullies to gang up up on one. They can't even stop themselves because they get off on the power of it all. But once someone comes in and defends the victim, even in the least, they back the hell off most of the time and even change their attitudes for the better towards the victim. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. Hey, it's just nice to stand up for people once in a while, especially your own friends, with their premission of course.
  18. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    Believe me, I am not suggesting that you do it. I just meant that you wouldn't be wrong for doing it if you wanted to in my opinion. But if you didn't want to, Believe me I understand..... because yeah, doing something like that (talking to other peoples family members and getting involved) took too much out of me emotionally and physically. Only once in a blue moon can I help others with these kinds of problems.
  19. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I feel it would not only do no good but make things worse for my friend and it really isnt my business. But I want to. Trust me, I rarely cuss but my head conversation is rich with cuss wirds

    Her son tells her she doesnt need them. He wont see them. And she has a new counselor. I hope she is a good one. And she has a group of friends and we are in touch thinking of how to help her.

    I have never before heard of anything so hateful I wouldnt have posted it.

    If I see her ex I will try to walk away quietly. No promises. Not that this would help either
    He has been taken into her family now. He is not a stellar citizin and yet he is accepted. Crazy. I am not sure they know he has been in trouble. She never told them because she wanted thei approval to date him and now everything she says is a lie. To them.

    Vile. Makes my family seem almost okay. Its true that there is always someone who has it worse.
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    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  20. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    I hear you

    You guys are really good friends. <3

    That upsets me so much. Poor woman.