Does dual diagnosis make a difference?

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Tired mama, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    I'm the mother of a 36 year old son who has been diagnosed bipolar I recently 302 him and have disastrous results he flipped out at the hospital and they put him in the 302 but then released him to jail. I refuse to bail him out. He has multiple charges especially traffic offenses and things and they transferred him from jail to jail. He was finally released and I told him he was on his own. actually is staying in a friends apartment and doing work for him but I don't know how long that's going to last. He is still texting me even though I have him blocked I can see them if I look and asking for various things. Because it was so cold and I didn't know what he had when he got out of jail I got him a change of clothes and a jacket and delivered him with Supplies he needed to the apartment. He keeps trying to create this company but he doesn't know how to manage it well. In the past I help with his rent I bought him groceries I bought him clothes a lot of times I paid his cell phone bill and then when his behavior became erratic and I him I found out that he had been taking cocaine and possibly other drugs as well. So when he got out I said I was done I wasn't helping him. But I worry because it's so cold and I don't know how long this stay at the apartment will be allowed. Am I doing the right thing?
     
  2. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Hi Tired Mama;

    I am so sorry for your need to be here but glad you have found us.

    You have every right to set boundaries and detach from your adult son with love.

    It is tough to do and it breaks our hearts but ask yourself if you continue to support him what would change. He has MH issues and drugs will exacerbate this illness. He had capacity to make choices and seek help.

    Have you tried to attend any support group meetings. NAMI or Naranon are good ones to look into. Privte therapy is also helpful. I do both. I still suffer from depression and PTSD from dealing with my son over the past several years. It is getting better and it will never be easy but it is easier for us to set boudaries and detach.

    This site has been tremendously helpful for me. I hope you find that as well.
     
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  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think you are doing it right. Paying his way hasn't helped him become the middle age man he is. When my daughter started drugging she was very young and we got very tough. By 19 she was out, no car or money from us. She was able to live in her nit picky,straight arrow brother's basement as long as she never so much as lit up one cigarette, let alone ever come home high. She had to walk to and from work, pay rent, help clean and cook for him and his tenants who rented rooms in his house. She was tired and scared of maybe becoming homeless. She did what he said and quit meth and cocaine. She walked to and from her job at Subway in the cold Chicago winter and it was cold in the basement, but she survived. Cold won't kill our adult kids. Drugs might. We had trouble making our daughter leave emotionally. We did not know that her rather sour brother would give her a place to stay, although he was harder on her than us and she knew if she didn't listen to him he would make her leave without guilt.

    It is twelve years later. She never went back and has a SO, a gorgeous daughter, a career, and is kind and sweet. I have been on this forum over ten years. The people I read about who quit and do well tend to do so after the parents give up their involvement. I don't mean we stop loving them. That never quits, ever! I mean we stop fixing their problems. To quit drugs takes a lot of motivation. in my opinion we have to make them hate drug life so much that they finally quit. Unlike with any other illness, our worry, fretting and comforting addicts makes them stay sick. Mom will still take care of them. No need to worry. No need to stop.

    Not all adults respond ike my daughter did when faced with homelessness. But I haven't read one story where our adult turned it around while Mom kissed it and made it better. Not with drugs and crime. The ones who made it were on their own. We have to see them as men, not cute little boys. Society sees them as adults, often scary ones.

    I hope you join Al Anon. It helped us so much. So did private therapy. We need to learn new ways to treat our difficult adults. Nothing changes if we don't change it up. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting things to magically have different endings. We can't control them or make them better. But we can fix ourselves and live well even when our adult children struggle. Others need us. We need us.

    Love and hugs. Hope this time you can stand strong.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  4. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    Thank you it helps to talk to people who have been there.
     
  5. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    I have been seeing a therapist but just needed to hear from others in similar situations.
     
  6. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    Today he called and said he needed info he left at our house. I don't answer the phone but he left a message and i texted asking what info. I said i would look for it and then he started with could i take a friend down to get his deserted truck cause he cant get to it and he needs it to survive. I said no and that it would end up with me being asked for parts and gas. He then went on to say he wouldn't be in this situation if i hadn't called the cops. And that he could die and i wouldn't care. Everything would have been fine if i would have left him alone. I find myself thinking i should take his friend down with the condition i drop him off and leave no further help. But alot of the trouble he got in was because he was driving recklessly. This is so hard. Help!
     
  7. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Welcome Tired mama. I'm sorry you're going thru this with your son. It's difficult to detach from their behaviors/choices when they are mentally ill, however, often we don't have many choices and our own health and well being makes it necessary.

    It's going to become necessary for you to learn different ways of responding to your son and for you to set strong boundaries and learn how to take care of yourself. We become depleted, exhausted and sick when we are up against the relentless demands and needs of our troubled adult kids. We have to take care of ourselves too. You matter. You deserve to have a life of peace. Of joy. Of comfort.

    You might find solace in reading the article on detachment at the bottom of my post here. As LBL mentioned, NAMI is a good resource, it's the National Alliance on Mental Illness. They offer excellent parent courses which can help you with support, information, guidance and resources for yourself and possibly for your son as well. You can access them online. 12 step groups like Al Anon, Families Anonymous, Narc Anon and CoDa have helped many parents here. Many of us have private therapists. This is a difficult journey and most of us require a lot of support.

    Hang in there. Keep posting. Find support. Take very good care of yourself. You're not alone. I'm glad you're here.
     
  8. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    I am trying but it is difficult it was easier when he called and his father answered and he said he hoped we both die and then wanted us to do paper work for him. Someone said anger makes it easier. Maybe
     
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  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I think maybe it would help if you imposed a waiting period of 24 hours between when he asks and when you say yes or no. Time that he can not call and ask for more, or pester you about anything. If he does, it means the answer is no. I suggest the waiting time because it gets you out of that emotional cycle of being at the end of the chain that he yanks.

    You also need to reframe your thinking. He isn't in this situation because you called the cops. He is in this situation because he was taking drugs and acting irrationally, which made it necessary for you to call the cops. He wasn't sitting quietly and reading the Bible when you suddenly decided to call the police on him. I feel quite sure of that!! He was doing something that was unacceptable and dangerous, so you felt the need to call the police. Good for you!!

    What are you thinking of to put a vehicle in the hands of a drug addict? I don't care how old he is. He doesn't sound capable of paying for insurance. That vehicle is a very heavy lethal weapon aimed a groups of innocent civilians every single time he operates it. I would leave it broken on the side of a road before I put my drug using or alcoholic child in it. I wouldn't want my child to die, much less to hit someone else.

    Many years ago, my brother and 2 close family friends were almost killed by a very drunk and stoned college kid. My brother almost died. He himself was not drinking that night. He was a binge drinker who later became a raging alcoholic. He has seen both sides of impaired driving and he regularly begs parents to refuse to let their children who are not in recovery drive. Ever. Let your son walk. When he pesters you about his vehicle, picture the family of a preacher with four or five kids all mangled in the wreckage after your son plowed into them.

    The 24 hour waiting period between your son asking you and you answering his request is a way for you to figure out if you really want to give him what he is asking for. Is it something that he needs or wants? Something that he can use to hurt someone else, like a vehicle? Or food or a coat? If it is food or a coat, I would probably say no because he can find shelters and churches that give these things away. He is not too good to make his poor mother support him, he is not too good to go and get them from a church. Maybe having you expect him to support himself, or figure out how to live without supporting himself and without you working your poor fingers to the bone when your children should be helping you, would make him want to get clean.

    Dual diagnosis does help, when they are ready for help. It addresses both the substance abuse and the mental health portions of the problem. You have to make their lives hard enough that they want to get clean before they will accept recovery though.

    Remember that YOU are a factor in all of this. Support from NarAnon/AlAnon helps, as does private therapy and posting here. Reading books like Codependent No More also help. Sometimes you give your kid a coat because it is winter and your Mommy Heart just can't stand the thought of him being out in the cold. That is okay, as long as you are aware of why you are doing it. It is okay to do those things for YOU.

    It is also okay to tell him that he cannot speak to you in a rude or abusive manner or you will hang up. Then to go ahead and hang up each time he does that. And to not give him whatever he is demanding/asking for when he is rude/abusive. If he cannot speak to you in a polite way, he shouldn't get what he wants. Trust me, he can learn this, especially if you keep most of your contact to over the phone. Don't give him what he asks for just because he is polite, he should still hear no and have to be polite. Manners are not a magic button that grants wishes. Bad manners certainly should be a magic button that denies them, except when the badly mannered person is in your face and would hurt you if you denied them.

    Above all, I know that you can't take all of the advice given to you by everyone here. Take the advice that works for you now. No one will be offended if you don't follow their advice when it is given. We all know that we are on this journey at our own pace, and that what works for us isn't what is right for anyone else. Don't be afraid that anyone here would ever judge you. We are not about that. I tend to come across pretty strong, and I can be blunt, but I would never get upset if you did what was right for you or what you felt was right for you at the time. This truly is a soft place for parents. I have been here a very long time and through some horrific things that I didn't think any other parent could understand. This group of parents understands. So even if you go away for a while or a long while, know we are here and you are always welcome. No matter how old your son is.
     
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  10. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    Thank you you make a lot of sense and i appreciate your advice. I am trying and thank goodness my husband is supporting me. I don't think i could make it without him.
     
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Sometimes it seems super logical when someone else says it. An hour before that person said it to you, it ran across your mind and it seemed like the most irrational or cruel thing that ever occurred to you.

    It happens to ALL of us.
     
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  12. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    The fun goes on. I have my phone on do not disturb at night so didnt get message till morning from my son saying he was losing touch with reality and wanted to go back to the hospital. I responded that i would be happy to help and would send an uber. Please send the address. My husband does not want me in the car with him because he has gotten nasty in car with me multiple times and has broken windshield and other damage. Last time he was ok but made me nervous because he blames me for 302. So he didn't send address and i sent ?? To remind still no response. After a while i sent are you still going? And about an hour or so later i get a fowl message saying i ignored him and i am dead to him with a couple f bombs. I said i didn't ignore you i said i would send an uber and you didn't send the address. I have been there but don't remember address he directed me. Go another f bomb. I question if i missed an opportunity to get him back in hospital. I should also note that the truck he wants to pick up is in that area and my husband felt he was trying to manipulate me to get to his truck. He specifically wanted that hospital even though they turned him over to police even though the judge said they could keep him for up to 20 days. Tired mama.
     
  13. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Sounds like FOG is setting in and manipulation. If he needs the hospital why would he be chosey about which one and why upset and no response to your offer to Uber him.

    A wise person on here once told me if my Difficult Child is angry then I am probably doing something right.

    So wise of you to have your phone on Do Not Disturb. We started doing this in the summer. Did we miss calls from son in an urgent situation. Yes he was arrested. Would we have hopped to his rescue? Nope. So why disrupt our lives and rest with his chaos. It would only be that disruptive to us.
     
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sounds like his sense of reality is excellent.
     
  15. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    What is fog?
     
  16. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Fear Obligation and Guilt is an acronym used in Naranon. It gets in our way of detaching from our difficult children.
     
  17. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    Thank you
     
  18. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    Does anybody know anything about financial resources for medical expenses. Up till now my bipolar son has refused treatment but finally decided to get on medications. He tells me he is not qualified for medicaid and wants me to commit to at least 400 dollars a month for medications . He is looking into disability but says it will take at least 18 months. He is 36. That would be a hardship for my husband and I. I am never sure how truthful he is being. I recently cut him off because i was dipping into my retirement to help him and ran up my credit cards and found he was taking drugs. Tired mama

    Tired
     
  19. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I call b.s. if your son makes no money he qualifies for Medicaid. He is lying. Also, disability can happen quickly. It all depends. Do you have proof he even applied? Force him to produce a paper trail.

    Yes, he will throw a baby fit, but force him to show you that he saw a doctor and applied for Disability. They all hand out papers. If he predictably says "But I lost them" or " they didn't give me anything" tell him to use his two good legs and get the papers. No papers, no proof.

    On top of that NEVER EVER give cash even $20 to a drug addict. It will go for illegal drugs. This is how you do it so that he can't do this.First make son show you a letter that is sent to all who try to get Medicaid that he does not qualify for Medicaid. Bet he will come up with an excuse why he doesn't have that either because he never tried. He just wants cash but you can't do that safely.

    When he can't produce the Medicaid rejection, tell him, if you do wish to pay for perceived medications, that you will pick them up for him and pay yourself, but that you are not giving him cash. My guess is after his adult toddler tantrum and insults are over he will never bring up any medications again. He wants your money. That's the bottom line.

    I think he I saying he needs medications for a way to get money. I don't think he really plans on taking them. When he saw a psychiatrist to get prescribed these four medications how did he pay if he had no Medicaid? What is the doctor's name? What is the address? Drug addicts lie. If their lips are moving they are usually lying. Demand proof.

    Never give a penny to a drug addict. Ever. Pay directly to the resource person, if you wish to pay anything. You can't trust a drug addict with any cash for any reason. A lot of this advice is from my daughter who was a drug addict once.

    He can get Medicaid if no job and keep your retirement. You need it. Your son will not be there for you in your hour of need. You need to have money for yourself and hub, not for son's illegal drugs.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  20. Tired mama

    Tired mama Active Member

    My mommy heart is saying we tried so hard to get him on medications and he is in hospital i verified that. What if he doesn't go on medications?