Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by New Leaf, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Came home to find correspondence from Tornado. Written on pieces of scrap, brown toilet paper wrapping, backside of laundry ticket, phone instruction, etc.
    It seems there is no stationary in jail.
    She quoted a bible verse about love. Wrote about being duped with “given a stolen moped.” Couldn’t provide a first and last name of the guy that gave it to her so the “CRU” arrested her. Said the judge refused her request for supervised release. Asked me to contact her public defender and try to make this all go by “faster, so I can get out and get back to a normal lifestyle so I can properly take care of myself and my kids.” Thanked me for paying for calls. Asked for photos and.....40$ for “chocolate, shampoo and conditioner.” Also wanted our names and social security numbers for visits.
    That sounded odd to me. I would not give anyone my SS number, especially someone in jail. Okay, maybe authorities, but not an inmate. 40$? Things must be expensive in jail. How does that work? Do inmates use that stuff to trade for drugs?
    Sorry, I have no clue about this.
    Her writing is almost manic sounding.
    Words. Mean. Nothing.
    We shall see what the weekend brings.
    Phone calls.
    I have not written to her yet, but will reply when I have time.
    I am glad she is reading the Bible.
    Perhaps she will find herself.
    For now, I know it is too early.
    One can hope.
    It is her journey and up to her.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  2. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    My son asked me for my SS# while in jail. Said he needed it to get an ID when he got out. Red flags were flying high!! I contacted the jail and was told under no circumstances should I ever give my son my SS#. They will sell it and then you are a victim of stolen identity.

    I suggest you contact the jail she is in and ask them all of your questions and concerns.

    UGH!! It's never easy with them.

    ((HUGS)) sweet lady!!
  3. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    I agree with Tanya. I can think of no reason she would need your SSN and I wouldn't give it to her for any reason. If you want to visit, call the jail and ask them how it's done. If she needs money to buy shampoo, etc., the jail can tell you how that's done too. :hugs:
  4. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Different area and jail instead of prison so could work different but here's how its done here.
    1-Visits: The offender will send (or, if available can be printed from their website) a visiting form. You fill it out, sent it back TO THE INSTITUTION who will then process and approve or deny your ability to visit. The only part the offender has in this is sending the form so DONT send her your SSN.
    2-Money: Missouri doctor offenders receive $7.50 per month to purchase legal and cosmetic items. Paper, pencils, soap, shampoo, etc... Yes, items from the canteen are more expensive than on the street but $40 is very excessive for the stated items. ANYTHING can be traded for drugs in prison but the currency of the realm tends to be cigarettes or stamps. I'd say she's either trying to purchase drugs or pay off a debt she has already incurred.

    As to the "paper" she wrote her letter on, my guess would be she did that intentionally to show you how destitute and desperate she wants you to think she is. Its just not that hard to get a piece of paper or two from staff for a letter. The bible verse just plays into the whole act. She's trying to make it seem to you like she is reforming herself in jail. And she may well be. But only time will tell. And that time will be measured in no less than months and, realistically, years. She's trying to play you would be my guess. Then again, I can be a bit cynical when it comes to offenders. Unfortunately, its for a good reason.

    Call the jail. They will be more than happy to explain to you the why's and wherefore's. Most actually have pocket book guides for family members.
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  5. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Missouri D.O.C. Department of Corrections. Stupid autocorrect.
  6. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Hi guys, on my break at work.
    Yup, I got the red flags too. Geez, awesome, our kids will not only steal from us, they will sell our identities as well. Nice.

    Great suggestion.

    Me neither and me too, Lil. Nice try, Tornado. Way to build my force field up.

    Ahhhh Jabber, I was hoping to find some answers from you. Thank you so much. The only knowledge I have is from tv shows. I am sure Tornado is counting on my inexperience with this.

    My guess too. I mean come on..... I need your SS number? That is a big clue to how “sincere” she is. As well as the 40$. Not going there.
    Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
    It helps me so much to navigate through this.
    Huh. Damn kid.

    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  7. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    In case it wasn't clear, that's only in prison. Jails, where you'd be before conviction or serving a misdemeanor sentence, have NO income. They aren't given any state money and so would actually have to be given some to buy anything. I doubt highly that's what she wants the $40 for, but if you ARE feeling benevolent, call the jail and ask how it works there. Different states/different rules.
  8. Triedntrue

    Triedntrue Well-Known Member

    I agree no ss number. As for other stuff my son told me same that you have to buy shampoo and stuff. Most jails have a website with all the rules commisary info etc.
  9. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    No commissary rules mentioned on the website, except for how to send money, or go in person to the cashier. No thank you. In the visitor section there is no mention of SS numbers, surprise, surprise. That is on her. Keeping the scrap letters for reference. I still can’t picture myself going there to visit.
    We shall see.
    I am not going to stress over it.
    Much. :oops:
    Just another Tuesday, right?
    Many thanks and hugs to all, have a fabulous weekend.
  10. toughlovin

    toughlovin Well-Known Member

    Hi Leafy

    When we visited our son in jail we had to fill out a form and I believe we djd have to give our SSN. But that was not to our son.

    I suspect she wanted money for the canteen. Here the inmate would put an order in once a week and that is how they got paper and stamps and snacks etc. And there was a whole jail economy trading going on with canteen items.

  11. Kalahou

    Kalahou Active Member

    Aloha Friday Leaf.
    I've not much time, but again, just a few things I experienced in the local system....
    I never sent my son any money the entire time he was there. And he was physically healthy when he got out 6 months later. Not starved at all! He did mention he learned to eat rice sandwiches. (Ha! The chefs in XXCC are creative!)

    The first note I received from him was on lined paper he said he asked from someone and they gave to him. The next time, he said he had found out that he could be provided with / could receive 2 sheets of paper, one envelope and one or two stamps per week.

    I never visited there ~ for what ? Just to hear him complain about how F U it was and why wouldn't I get him out ? The periodic 5 minute calls were enough for me. (There is information on the internet for the facility that explains what the visitor requirements are if you want to check it out yourself.)

    After a couple months, son got a part time (3-4 hrs / day) job in the laundry, and when he got out, he actually had $45 due to him, so I figured he had made out better financially in jail than he would have outside, where he never had a dime. Perhaps Tornado will be selected to land a part time job - I think it helps if they can keep busy. My son got back to reading a few books.

    Granted, it is not fun in jail, but Tornado is adjusting. She has no choice. She will only make it what she wants, as she and the other DCs do in their lives no matter where they are. I lift prayers there may be someone there who will take an interest in her good and be a positive impact, and she will experience something that makes an impact on her for change.

    Thank you for sharing. My heart is with you, as I have been through this and understand the swirling feelings you have, that can be pushed down, and then well up at the least brief thought.

    E pule .... Bless Kalahou.
  12. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I found visiting my daughter in jail to be a stressful, crummy experience. Like you Leafy, previous to her landing in jail for having "stolen property she didn't know was stolen," I knew nothing about jail or how to navigate thru the system. My daughter landed in jail a couple of times, I visited her twice, once the first time, once the second, both times were upsetting for me, after those experiences, I never went back. I told her I would put a little money on "her books" so she could buy personal hygiene stuff and call me weekly, that was what worked for ME. Trust your own instincts, however, at least for now, I would suggest you stay clear of visiting, it sounds like Tornado is still working the angles.

    I think when our kids have been "out there" for whatever reason, they get savvy at street smarts, pushing their trip on others to get their needs met, closing down their emotional selves, hardening to anything that would take their focus off of whatever they believe they require for their survival. It's tough to break thru that demeanor, especially if they are also coming off drugs or alcohol. I think jail induces a similar state of mind for self protection and your daughter and my daughter have learned how to survive in unsafe environments, sigh.

    However, as my daughter came down off of that level of survival and could let her guard down a little bit, it became easier to get through to her, to connect with her, to begin to form a new relationship, which we're doing now. It took time. Quite a bit of time. And, a lot of boundaries on my part, as you know. When she was deep into her homelessness and vagabond way of living, she and I had NO bridge to stand on, we had little to no ability to relate. We're slowly building a new bridge.

    Tornado is not in her right mind now. She is coming down off of a long time on the streets and using drugs, it's going to take time for her to be able to really "see" and "hear" you, for her to regain her equilibrium in a life without drugs and a life off the street. If indeed, that is the route she takes.

    I think, at least for the time being, your choice to not visit Tornado and to limit your connection with her is a wise one for your own well being. If she begins to come down off the drugs and feral survival, you'll know it and at that point, you can make another choice. But for now, Tornado appears to have simply transferred her street self into her jail self, no real change, just a different location. Until a shift occurs in her thinking, nothing you do will make any difference. Hard lessons for us.

    I believe that my daughter's jail experiences were one of the lessons she had to go through to see her way clear to a different way of life.....she worked very hard after that to avoid having that fate again, which meant she had to clean up her act to a certain degree, which she did. It was just enough of an interruption in her usual way of living to allow her to see how far she had gone down the rabbit hole.

    Tornado is at a choice point now.....she can continue in her usual way of living or she can make a change. It's all up to her. It has nothing to do with you.

    You're going through the emotional part of it now.....the hard part.....amp up your self care to the max now....remarkably, if Tornado is there for awhile, it will become your "new normal" and life will continue.....only you've now moved through another level of acceptance and Tornado has a chance for change....

    We're all right here with you Leafy....our wagons are circled around you.....we know how tough this......you're never alone.
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  13. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Hi everyone, I cant say enough how grateful I am for your responses.
    I would imagine folks get pretty clever in there. What I don't want to do is to fund drug use. That's for sure.
    Rice sandwiches.....blek.
    The visiting would be hard this year, as son has many activities being a senior. I want to keep my focus where it needs to be. I do wonder what a face to face would be like, because it has been so long and the track record is not so good. Blame, denial and angst. If her mind clears and she is not "talking bubbles", I may consider it. It will be on my call, not hers. We shall see what the next few weeks brings about.

    I am hoping that she will continue reading the Bible, even if the quote sent may be a buttering up tactic, some of it has to sink in eventually.

    It is okay that it is not fun. That has been her concentration for the longest time-partying. So, now, her time is very regimented, to say the least. Thank you for your prayers, Kalahou. I am praying as well that she find herself somehow through all of this.

    It is true, Kalahou. My first catastrophic thinking was with her detoxing and the depression that can happen. But, I have no control over any of it. I have to have faith that what is, is, and she will have to make the best of it. I am glad to be able to pray when my thoughts turn dark. I thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. It is a comfort.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Hi new leaf. Did not read entire thread but my experience of prison not jail is that there is a requirement that indigent prisoners be provided with basic provisions for hygiene and stuff like writing paper and pencils and a limited amt of postage.

    This practice is so institutionalized it has a name, a fish kit, for new arrivals.

    Think of it. The grand majority of new arrivals to a jail have nothing, and many, nobody.

    Your daughter angers me.

    She is trotting out the "magic words.". She is putting the responsibility on you.

    I have come to see my own son as toxic to me. I would guess I am projecting here my own pain, but I am reacting to Tornado the same way.

    Everybody else is responsible. She was caught up by mistake, due to the wrong headedness of others. Her intentions are to do all the right things with respect to everybody

    No mention of all the hurt. No mention of all the abandonment. No mention of all the degradation. No mention of all the damage, destruction and broken heartedness in her wake.

    She is still in her mind sitting smack dab in the middle of a festooned float, waving to admirers in a parade all for her.

    Until she sees she is sitting in her own :censored2: and feels something in her heart for her family who she has forced to be there with her, in this smelly mess, I would have almost no part of her.

    She is inviting you to climb on her float.

    You know better.

    I am sorry.
  15. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Lest I be too harsh.

    Have empathy for the depression that may set in.

    But not too much lest you lose your center of gravity which is centered in you, the heart of your family.

    She has walked into this forest. She has been determined to stay there. She is the only one who can find her way out. She has guides where she is. There are sign posts. She has caregivers. She has only to choose.

    New leaf. Your participation can only confuse her. Every. Single. Thing. She needs. Is in her. And available in her environment.

    Jails and prisons are not in the practice of killing people. Of abusing them.

    Yes. Those things happen.

    But there is a squad of public interest attorneys rightfully advocating for the safety and constitutionally given rights of incarcerated people.

    I am not saying to ignore her plight. I am saying that it is hers. And she is choosing to make it yours. It is not.
  16. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    Leafy, I haven't been able to respond much lately but I have been reading and I'm sending you lots of love and hugs. You are doing the right thing. Letting her learn this lesson, alone, can be the best possible gift that you can give to her. Thankfully this is not a heavy charge. It's probably one of the the most perfect charges she could get for her situation right now, because it's strong enough to keep her put, safe, and most of all, give her time to reflect, but not strong enough to ruin or hurt her life in any real significant way, so you don't have to feel too badly about it all. This is the time for her I feel. This is situation is a catalyst for her to change if she so desires.
  17. Wish

    Wish Active Member

    I agree. Very important advice I think.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  18. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Hi Re, and my fellow warriors
    I think this is what Rain was trying to tell me in her own way. Tornado has gone over the edge, even in her sisters mind. I could see that a few years ago, as she went through her issues with her abusive boyfriend, she became harder and harder. Her "survival" became a very selfish thing, verbally abusive to her family, funny and perky for friends. Her kids recall this, and have no trust in her whatsoever. In that way, they are protecting themselves.

    This one has always been a toughie, or presented herself that way. Stubborn and headstrong. Applied the right way, it is a good thing. She has definitely gone down some dark roads, for sure. Jail is the best place for her right now, even though she will probably apply those street smarts. Hopefully, she will seek out better companions.

    This is the thing. Just like she is detoxing not of her own accord, but due to her circumstances, the attempt on her part to “build a bridge” is the same, brought on by her needs and wants. Right now, it serves her purpose to try and have a relationship. I am feeling leery and cautious about that.
    It is a hard lesson, because my “mom instinct” tries to override the flashing neon warning lights in my stoic brain. I have to measure my emotional output carefully, lest I go too far from one side to the other. The shift I would look for, is remorse. But, for now, she is singing the “We are Family” song, after no contact for one year. Huh. Imagine that.
    Looking back at my own stupid mistakes as a teen, I believe I apologized to my parents for many years after.
    Feral survival.
    That sums it up so succinctly. It rings in my head.
    This is encouraging, Re, and I do hope the same for Tornado. Only time will tell.
    You are correct. It has nothing to do with me. If love could save, we all wouldn’t be here.
    I am working on accepting this new normal and whatever comes down the pipe with it. I can’t allow myself to be threatened, or chided into anything. That first call with her brings me back to reality “I have been out on the streets for a year and YOU didn’t even come look for me.”
    Now it’s, “I am in jail and YOU need to.....send me money...come visit.....make me comfortable.”
    I realize it will take some time for her head to clear and for her to take responsibility for her actions.

    Thank you Re. It is so good to have this place to come to for feedback and moral support.
    You know Copa, I was thinking that as well.
    This is how she has operated for quite some time.
    Delusions of grandeur, that is how I see it.
    I don’t think she is at a place where she even bats an eye or winces at her past indiscretions. It brings me back to that huge incident with her circling my house, shouting at the top of her lungs, racial slurs and swearing. Never a mention, an apology. Her letter to her kids asks them to forgive her mistakes but I don’t think she has any idea or clue of how her choices have affected them. That is a poison for them to behold. The wound opened and festering in their psyche by her shallow attempt on her initial phone contact.......“When I get out I will buy you things.” Ugh.
    You are right, Copa. Awhile ago, I saw her Instagram page. Full of selfies and “gangsta” slang. Her beauty marred by the ugliness brewing inside.
    I have to borrow from my grandchildren’s armor. They want nothing to do with her. They have been through too much. We all have. I know love forgives, but that also comes with the offender being remorseful and willing to change. The “family” card is so easy for her to play when it suits her.
    I do worry about the depression from detox, but give that to God. I cannot go backwards with this latest situation with her. I have come to far to allow that.
    I have been thinking about this Copa. Together with Re’s experiences, Kalahou, it makes so much sense. It is not my journey to walk. I don’t plan on visiting, or for that matter, going to court.
    It is so typical of her. “Rally to my side!” Uh, no. Thank you Copa for the clarity. You know how our kids can pull the wool over our eyes and manipulate those heart strings. I will write to her, when I am ready. Then I will be cautious with my words. She has a way of switching them all around.

    Thank you so much Wish for your love and hugs. I feel the same about Tornados situation. It really is an answer to my fervent prayers that she find herself. I am sure she does not feel the same at this time. It is up to her to make it a turning point, or not. I am swimming against the tide at times, trying not to relapse into old habits, emotionally and in my response. Cautious optimism, and standing on a “wait and see” platform. I know that the meth may have cleared her system, but not her thinking, she is a dry addict.
    I am a dry enabler. I am cognizant that it is easy for me to slip into old habits and allow her situation to infect my life, which I cannot abide. My big saving grace is focusing on my responsibilities towards my son. I know all too well that I can’t use this as a crutch, that I constantly have to work in building myself up to resist the temptation to fall prey to her tactics. She will measure my love in phone calls, letters, money in her account, jail visits. Not acceptable. It is as Copa wrote, she is choosing to put her plight on me. It is not my load to bear. She has to find it in herself to make the right choices and to bear responsibility for her past mistakes. She has to understand the pain she has inflicted on her family and herself.
    I will continue to pray for her recovery, and proceed with caution with my response. Lest she continue to be confused at bearing responsibility, blame switch and feel entitled. That is what I am seeing through her letters, with the help of everyone who has posted. It is so easy to let my mother’s heart be duped into going into overdrive. I thank you all for helping me put on the brakes and think.
    Nothing needs to be done, at this time.
    In fact, I have to remember that I have my life to live, bills to pay, work, my son. She needs to know this as well, it should be a given, something blaringly obvious.
    Thank you so much, everyone, for your replies, encouragement and hugs.
    It is a whole new chapter on this journey. One that I hope turns out for the better.
    That is completely up to Tornado.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  19. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Leafy, is Rain maybe the bright star in all of this? She sounded mature and rational and did care enough to give you her opinion. To me it sounds as if she just may put her life together!
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  20. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Rain has spoken before of Tornados drug use, has seen her go off the deep end and then some. I think her main motivation is her disgust at her abandoning her children. Rain loves those kids.
    It is a good thing that she cared enough to warn me. I hope that this will move her towards “normal” living, but......she has been on the streets for a few years now. I can’t imagine living in the conditions she does. She seems to be okay with it. Adjusted. I imagine it must seem odd to try and reenter mainstream society after living on the edge of it for so long. She has a routine of dumpster diving, bottle and can collecting. Has from time to time shown up with different mopeds.
    I do see the good in her reaching out, but as far as putting her life together, we shall see. I don’t want to sound negative, just realistic. It can’t be easy out there, like other cities, the homeless population is soaring. Sigh.
    I pray everyday that she and her sister find their true potential.
    Thanks Swot for seeing that bright side. It is a glimmer of hope.
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List