Not a good report

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by RN0441, May 10, 2016.

  1. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    After I posted a new thread this morning I got a call for my son's therapist. She has been seeing him for 5 weeks now and doesn't feel much if any progress is being made.

    He has a sense of entitlement
    He is somewhat judgmental - He looks down on others that have more serious drug problem
    He said he's living in sober living because it's "cheaper than an apartment"
    Said he's going to live in our condo
    Said he's going to college and live in an apartment
    He doesn't really need help but knows he can no longer take benzos

    Holy :censored2:! Where did he get this from?

    She asked him if they discharged him what he would do and he said "his parents would figure it out". What?? We sent him there because he needs HELP. He made our lives a living hell.

    I am so EMBARRASSED by his behavior/attitude. I did not raise him to act like this. I did not raise him to think he's better than anyone!! I thought he would be humbled by being there.

    The therapist sounds like a younger girl and she mentioned she is pregnant but she sounds very knowledgeable and has been doing this for some time (and I've talked to lots of them). She has seen this before with his age (20) so is hoping we can redirect him. Feeling pretty hopeless right now. I really had high hopes for sending him away but the past few days I've had this inner feeling that he really wasn't driving change and now it's confirmed.

    I asked his father to call him and told him not to be angry and ranting and raving but talk calmly. So he did. He laid it on the line and said if he is not successful in the program he was on his own with no help from us. He'd have to work and find a place to live there in Delray on his own. My son said he'd just BS them and his dad said no, that's not what we are asking you to do. It's not just having a job and staying sober. That's not enough. He has to drive the change or we will not be moving forward with sending his car or paying for college etc. for him. He told him he cannot live in our condo EVER and we have no idea why he'd say this.

    As a mom I have to back away. If he is not going to change then that means he will continue to hurt me. I can't let him hurt me anymore. I am not going to talk to him for a while until I hear that something has changed. I can't keep doing this to myself. I don't know if this is the right thing to do but I just feel so heartbroken that once again he refuses to see his problem.:cry:
  2. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    She is hoping YOU can redirect him?

    if you had that power, he wouldn't be where he is. He needs THEIR help in being "redirected".

    She is young. She doesn't have the experience. Which isn't unusual. By the time good ones have the experience... they typically burn out.
  3. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    I believe she meant that we needed to reiterate that we are not enabling him: If he leaves there he's on his own.

    We aren't going to "figure it out".
  4. rebelson

    rebelson Active Member

    Oh.dear. That's why he did not want you to talk to therapist, I bet.

    Entitlement sounds about right. My son can have the same attitude. They both need to be humbled. Come out of their 'head'.

    It has sounded to me that your d_c has been going through the motions. Not going to AA, which, as someone else said (TL?), is concerning. I realize that AA is not for everybody, but I feel like it's for your and my son in particular. They are entitled, haughty, too 'in to themselves'. Going in front of other addicts and exposing their faults, wrongdoings, etc., is very helpful and brings about a growth that they cannot obtain elsewhere.

    You are paying his way. I don't know what y'all's plan is from here on out, but I'd tweak it a bit.

    This thing is a tumultuous ride, RN. :notalone:
  5. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    RN. He is posturing. I do not necessarily buy anything that he is saying. Nor do I believe he believes it.
    I think your husband handled this beautifully.

    I am in a similar situation with my son. The thing is: we cannot affect what they hold as important, in a deep and enduring way. They do. They change when and how they decide to. Your son may not be even at an age where he can understand what your husband and you are asking of him, let alone do it. Right now he is conforming, going with the flow, to get what he wants. Call it manipulating, or managing the situation. But nobody can get him to buy in if he is not there yet or chooses not to.
    I agree with this.

    The problem is, let me see if I can articulate it, is that we are asking for both dependency and independence from this. The message is confused. Do as I say, but take responsibility for it. We will take care of you..if you do what we want...which is take responsibility for yourself. See, how messy it is?

    I am in the same ugly and horrible spot. I have told my son to leave the rental house where he has been staying because he did not conform to my expectations or to his commitments (which I imposed.) The same messiness. He made the commitments but it was a forced choice.

    He wants a place to live with us, but he does not buy into the conditions. He has reached the spot where he understands that everything in life has conditions--he just still does not get that he is responsible for meeting them. That he is responsible for his commitments and himself.

    Honestly, I do not know what to do. In your case it seems clearer because your son is playing with a full deck. My son is on SSI.
  6. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Rebelson Well I'm not going to talk to him for a while, until I hear a better report. He can talk to his dad. I have to work on detaching. I know this will bother him tremendously because I know he wants me to believe he is doing "good" and I'm doing it partly to send a message but the bigger part is to just give me a break from it. Yes I saw it coming. OMG how insane is this.

    I feel like Norma and Norman on Bates! Does anyone watch that!! Any mother of a son on here should. It'll freak you out!!

    Copa you are right. Maybe he doesn't understand what we are asking him to do. I never thought of that. Yes he is going through the motions and the facility he is at actually cares and called him on it. I figured that out this past week and it sucks. Everything you said in that paragraph is spot on. And also the messiness of our message to him.

    I am just thankful he is in Florida where I don't have to worry about him freezing to death if he does decide to become homeless and not follow the path we have set for him but I would be shocked if he chose to do that. I don't think he's made of that.
  7. ColleenB

    ColleenB Active Member


    I am sorry to read your post, just because I know how disappointing it feels when we have hopes for success and our kids don't "get it".....

    Your son is making progress even if it feels like he isn't. He is off Benzos, and working and living in the sober living house. Isn't that progress???

    I too get impatient with my son, as I don't think his idea of progress and mine are the same..... But I have to remember that for him just not dealing and doing hard drugs are an improvement... For now.

    That isn't saying they need to keep moving towards independence, but for our case I think it will be in his time, not ours. Hard to accept for me.

    Detaching is tough, and I can't say I've figured it out myself.

    Hang in there!!!!
  8. lovemyson1

    lovemyson1 Active Member

    I'm sorry for what you're going through but from reading your previous post, i was totally getting the "entitlement" attitude from him. My son was like that before. Until he realizes he is "lucky" to be where he is and to have supportive parents and a chance to change his life, he most likely won't change. Sounds like he's just doing his time. He needs to be grateful he's safe and has every opportunity to better himself. What worked for us is to to tell our son, "you're not coming back home no matter what. You need to figure out where you're going when you leave the men's home." He understand that now and appreciates any little thing we do for him. He knows that it's his life he has to figure it all out. We are here to help him with advice, etc. but he's ready to put his big boy pants on finally. You seem to know what to do, stay strong!!
  9. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    This is huge.
    Me too. I think he feels he is driving the parents...not the other way around.
    Yes. Looking at the glass half full, this is a good thing. Going through the motions is a good thing. But not enough. But he has to get there, nobody can do it for him.
    My son is at this place now. In part. We have brought him close to home in an environment that we control. He is appreciative but it has made our situation messy again. We impose rules. Like with RN's son, he does only what he wants, and goes through the motions when we are watching.
    This is where I am stuck. Did I do the wrong thing, helping my son with a place to stay? Do I force him out? I do not know.
  10. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    RN, I'm so sorry. As the mother of a son who doesn't "get it", you have my complete sympathy. I think you are right to step away from this for a while. His father has said what needed said and there is no need to do more at this point.
  11. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Next life I'm foregoing reproduction and just getting a bunch of animals!:fantasysmiley:
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  12. Roxona

    Roxona Active Member

    I'd definitely stand my ground and protect my boundaries if I was in this situation. My SD26 pulled something like this on me early on in my relationship with her father. She had just moved in with her boyfriend and maybe a month later I got a message that she was going to physically hurt him. I like her boyfriend. He's a good guy, and I didn't want to see him get hurt. She wasn't going to move back in with her Dad because J and I had moved in and there wasn't a room for her anymore. Sooo, I got her a part-time job through a friend and told her she could live at my second house for $300 per month (which was reasonably based on what she was making at the part-time job). I also told her if she took two classes at the community college, I would pay all the utilities. She moved in, and signed up for two classes....but stopped going to work and didn't call in...and then wasn't going to class. She called me one day (not even within 30 days of moving in) and told me that they had fired her and that she couldn't make the rent payment, and "what are you going to do about it?!" I told her I wasn't going to do anything about it, but rent was due on the first, and I suggested she start looking for another job. She later told her dad that she didn't see how me making her pay $300 per month for rent was "helping" her.

    She quickly moved in with her mom in another was for the best.
  13. DarkwingPsyduck

    DarkwingPsyduck Active Member

    The judgmental, entitlement thing may just be an elaborate sham. I know I did it, too. I think all addicts do it. No, were never THAT bad. We might be bad, but not THAT bad. It is all nonsense, of course. And displays a refusal to accept the reality that we are, indeed, THAT bad. One of the biggest differences between an active addict, and an addict in recovery is they way they think. The ones in recovery don't hold themself higher than other addicts. We know it is all bullshit. Improvement isn't made by downplaying the problem, and the effects the problem has. An addict is an addict is an addict. HOW you got there isn't really relevant. Maybe it started out innocently enough, with a prescription, or whatever. None of that matters. We have a very serious problem, with very serious effects. I never stuck a needle in my arm, but I am NO better than the ones that did.

    I would agree with his counselor. His changes all seem to be superficial. Like he is playing the part to the bare minimum. He isn't displaying any of the humility you'd like to see. He places himself above others with the exact same problem. This is the opposite of humility. If you cannot truly appreciate the gravity of a problem, how can you TRULY expect to correct it in a meaningful, long term way?
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  14. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    R, it takes months for the brain to change after they've stopped using. 3 months is not a lot of time to be sober. Don't expect the entitlement and the denial that he isn't one of "them" to change .overnight. It's still pretty early in the game.

    That he works 36 hours a week....amazing! Many of our kids can't even sit down at a computer and fill out job applications, let alone keep a job. Mine was let go from his first program because he wouldn't look for a job. It's one good sign.

    I'm really surprised that meetings aren't mandatory at the sober house he's at.

    The only thing you can really do at this point is to stick to your boundaries and keep repeating them whenever he brings them up. It is especially important for you, as the mom and the parent he may see as the less strict one, to be kind but firm with him. This will send a very strong message that the two of you are united and that one cannot be played against the other.

    That's a good idea to step away and let husband do most of the talking.

    It is so very, very hard for a mom to listen to her son complain. It is so hard on us when our adult kids are not happy.

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  15. DarkwingPsyduck

    DarkwingPsyduck Active Member

    What an excellent series. Really does Hitchcock proud. The cast is amazing, and they play out the whole Oedipus complex perfectly. I would strongly recommend the series to anybody.

    Ever see the Omen series? Based on the Omen movies, of course. Still in it's first season, but very good. As is the Scream series, based on the awesome Scream movies on the 90's. Funny, I don't generally enjoy horror movies, but I LOVE the series based on horror franchises.
  16. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    Meant that to be a hug sign not a smiley...:hugs:
  17. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Thanks for everyone's support and comments. It helps so much!

    He is working steady and likes it (six weeks wow (sarcastic). He is sober. Both of these are better than he has done in five years. He has never done the two together actually. That I am thankful for. This gives me some hope. Maybe he overly proud of this.

    He called me five times last night. I didn't answer. My husband thinks I'm overreacting - that I let him "get to me". It's just I wanted so bad this time to be different. He's so far away from home and everything that defines him. If I were him, I'd be scared shitless if my parents "sent me away"!!

    I sent him an email this morning and told him that I needed some time. That he should talk to his dad if he needs anything. I reiterated that those in his house that are actually working towards sobriety are not beneath him. He is beneath them. I also told him he has not been the son or brother he should be or could be. I told him to take a hard look at himself. I just feel angry and it probably won't mean anything to him anyway but I just had to say it.
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  18. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    In a Daze - Three IOP meetings per week are mandatory right now and he does go to those. NA or AA isn't mandatory though. He said he doesn't like hearing other people's problems.

    Darkwing - I ask myself those questions also. I hope that he takes this opportunity to get where he needs to be long term. I told him he won't be able to stay sober unless he has all of the accountability in place that he now has in sober living.
  19. DarkwingPsyduck

    DarkwingPsyduck Active Member

    Remember, he didn't get into this mess overnight, and he certainly wont be getting out of it overnight. It takes real time, and real effort. A few months is virtually no time in the grand scheme of things. I am well over a year, and I am far from "normal". Relearning how to live and think isn't easy, and it isn't fast. I still find myself slipping back into old ways of thinking and operating. Every aspect of my life was dedicated to the pursuit of drugs. That leaves a :censored2: ton of free time that I am still struggling to fill. The world moves so much slower without my drug. Trying to find ways to fill all this extra time is challenging to say the least.
  20. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Darkwing I agree with you. But apparently the place he is in is not seeing what they want to see from him and that is why they called me. He isn't all on board with all of it I guess.

    He thinks if he lays off the pills all will be fine. We would let him drink a few beers at home once in a while when he was sober but when he took benzos he'd want whiskey and he'd smoke cigarettes. Both which he claims he hates. Of course that is before we knew what was going on.

    We are just normal people trying to muddle through all of this and have gotten a considerable amount of outside assistance but in the end it's still on YOU because it's YOUR kid in YOUR home.