Really need advice...

[PatriotsGirl]

And things are already going as one would think it would with addict difficult children...

Since finding out difficult child and M are having a baby, I have jumped into mom mode. I took her to the various places she needed to go and apply for benefits. I have also been telling M what needs to be done so someone else knows besides just difficult child. difficult child is just not a motivated person. I have always had to poke and prod her to get things done. I figured I could now rely on him to poke and prod and ensure things are being done. Ha. He is taking it as lecturing. He is "overwhelmed". :/

So, Monday morning, difficult child calls me hysterical crying asking me to come there right away. That she was not staying with that a hole anymore. I asked her what happened and she said it didn't matter, please come. So of course I jump in my car and fly out there only to find that difficult child had an "episode". Apparently, she has been having these bi-polar episodes. I don't know if it is bi-polar, or withdrawals from quitting everything. M took a video of difficult child freaking out and asked if I wanted to watch. I didn't. He said he just grabbed her and hugged her and that is when she broke down in tears and calmed down. I told them both that she needs to see a doctor and be under the care of a doctor. She has medicaid - she needs to make an appointment.

difficult child went to her medicaid appointment on Tuesday morning - they actually went on their own - and then she called me telling me he left her there. That he said he was not prepared and that she needs to "prepare" him before he goes or something crazy like that. Then tells me that I am making him mad with all of the judgements. (M and I were having a text conversation about difficult child and I had asked him if HE was clean, too, and he never answered. Maybe I overstepped a boundary? But I am concerned!!). She started yelling at me so I got mad and told her neither one of them is ready for a child and hung up.

AND, I think he is still using. I have seen signs that show me that he is and I am terrified for that baby. He was talking a mile a minute on Monday. Now, I don't think SHE is. I have been keeping an eye on the phone records and she is not on it on all hours like she is when she is using. She hasn't even been smoking cigarettes. She has been sleeping A LOT. Almost all of the time...

So, I check the phone records this morning and he has been texting her ALL night long. First of all, I don't know why they weren't together, but regardless, she has barely responded and he is texting her a storm - still. You can tell by looking at the records, that HE was up all night long.

I am concerned. VERY concerned. I want her to go back to the program. I told her there she has access to places to work, doctors, the bus line - all in a sober environment. She was talking about going back to the program when I talked to them on Monday. They were both saying that it was a good idea. I have been hoping she would, but then she got mad at me on Tuesday and M texted me this yesterday:

"Yeah she was ******. To be honest, I'm pretty ****** also. I appreciate that you are concerned for her and the baby but I wish you would calm down a little, maybe not as judgemental. It wears on me when you lecture me on what she should be doing and her on what I should be doing. I hope me saying this doesn't prompt you to go off on me. I would like to talk and clear the air on a few things soon. I don't want you to be upset with us, either."

I wrote him back explaining my history with difficult child and how I was terrified and praying for peace.

I need advice from you awesome people. How do I proceed?? Am I overstepping boundaries? What can I do if I am concerned about the environment?? difficult child coming here to have and raise the baby is not an option. husband would never allow it. We always said we wouldn't be those parents that get stuck raising their grandchild, but now that there is a real baby involved, I have to admit - my heart is more invested. But I also do know deep in my heart that no matter what, the program is a better place for her and where she needs to be...at least for now...

Of course, they shouldn't even be having a baby, but nothing can be done about that now. I really, really don't think she will terminate the pregnancy...so now I have to figure out what I can do to protect that innocent life.

 

[DaisyFace]

(((Hugs)))

Well, as awful as it is - I think you may have to 'butt out'. M has clearly asked for a "boundary" - he is stating that he does not want to hear your advice, regardless of how wise or well-intentioned. And, he is stating it clearly, but politely and firmly. I'd hate to see it escalate to the "F you, go to H" stage...

I think you need to respect that boundary....step back. Let difficult child come to YOU for help and advice if she wants it.

I know it will be hard...

 

[compassion]

I can really relate . When fear gets triggered with me, I get overfocused and what I perceive as concern and helping gets interpreted as controlling. So, I have to stay really vigilant about my OWN emotional/spritual condition. Al-anon and Nami help a lot as do these forums. I also have to practice acceptance and realsitc expectations. My big thing I try and practice is not reacting. I get to have my opinions, values,etc. but can't expect I can relate to my daughter and boyfriend the way I think makes commonsense. i can't reason with the unreasonable. (((( ))) to you. You are doing great in a tough situation.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Oh boy, I am going to have to sit on my hands and bite my tongue. It is going to be really, really hard. I have a type A personality coupled with anxiety and a fierce love for my daughter.

But it is really hard to help in some ways and yet I am expected to keep my mouth shut. That is a hard line there...oh my, this is going to be so hard.

So I suppose it didn't help matters when I told them that the unborn baby could not speak for themselves and I will be da**ed if I sit back and not stand up for that innocent life that did not ask to be born into this mess? That I didn't care if they didn't like it or it made them mad? Ooops...

 

[AnnieO]

I would be terrified, too. I have a perfectly healthy little one who had every advantage I could give her while in the womb... And I am terrified for her... And I have CONTROL over that. You don't.

Sweetie... As horrible as this sounds... You probably do need to back down. If she needs to go somewhere, she can ask you. M sounds like a grade-A (AHEM). And if she is clean for the baby... Maybe... Just maybe... She will begin to understand that he cannot be near the baby and be using.

I'll pretzel and pray for that!

 

[DaisyFace]

So I suppose it didn't help matters when I told them that the unborn baby could not speak for themselves and I will be da**ed if I sit back and not stand up for that innocent life that did not ask to be born into this mess? That I didn't care if they didn't like it or it made them mad? Ooops...

Understandable position - but no, probably didn't help your relationship with Baby's parents...

(((Hugs)))

 

[recoveringenabler]

PG, that's a hard place to be. It sounds as if you've moved into serious protecting mode, understandable because of an innocent baby, however, I agree with compassion, over-vigilance is based in fear and although it 'feels' like helping, it is enabling and does come across as controlling. What a difficult place to be and yet, as time goes by, you'll learn when to step in and when to step back, it's just that the baby added a whole new dimension to that process. Sigh. I feel for you and know how you feel. I needed MEGA support to keep those boundaries intact. (((HUGS))))

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Oh boy.

Well, after having a glass of wine last night, I sent him a text saying that my reactions are based in fear and that fear comes from love. I told him that I realized I needed to step back and give them the opportunity to become good parents and so I would be stepping back, and here cheering them on with love and there if and when they needed me.

This morning, after I saw the phone records, I was thinking about contacting difficult child to try to get her alone to talk to her tonight, but you are right. I am being the crazy lady right now because of the baby. I need to leave it be now. I'll sit on my hands and make no contact until they contact me. But they certainly cannot expect to drag me into the drama and then get mad when I voice an opinion? So I need to be there to help, but not get hoovered into the drama and not voice my opinion. Oh boy...

Thank heavens for all of you!!!!

 

[Signorina]

Oh PG. this may come across harshly and that is not my intent. But I think you are losing your perspective... And I totally understand WHY... concern for the baby and the live you have for your daughter & your grand baby. So I am not judging...please know that.

In my mind - You have two issues:

1) you are not detaching from the addicts in your life. Both M and difficult child. In fact, you are attaching to them, and the understandable truth that you are doing it out if valid concern doesn't really matter. And they are bristling. And the more you try to control- the more they will react. You need to back away. You & difficult child have a history and a pattern- and you may trigger it by trying to be the problem solver & the baby's advocate. I know that your own pregnancy was a positive turning point in your life. I say this gently & with love- it may not be like that for her. And trying to push her into "there" may backfire. Please forgive me if I sound unkind.

2) ok, take a breath-- even in the best case scenario no pregnant daughter wants an overbearing mom and no sister in law appreciates a meddling mother in law. With difficult children, it's multiplied by 100. You need to let them find their way. I know it sucks and it's worrisome; I get it. Let them both know that you are available to them but they need to ASK. And stop volunteering info, advice, yourself... Know what I mean??

Hugs, hugs, hugs. You are between a rock and a hard place. You need to detach a bit. Let her know she needs help & treatment. And that's where you will help.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Oh PG. this may come across harshly and that is not my intent. But I think you are losing your perspective... And I totally understand WHY... concern for the baby and the live you have for your daughter & your grand baby. So I am not judging...please know that.

In my mind - You have two issues:

1) you are not detaching from the addicts in your life. Both M and difficult child. In fact, you are attaching to them, and the understandable truth that you are doing it out if valid concern doesn't really matter. And they are bristling. And the more you try to control- the more they will react. You need to back away. You & difficult child have a history and a pattern- and you may trigger it by trying to be the problem solver & the baby's advocate. I know that your own pregnancy was a positive turning point in your life. I say this gently & with love- it may not be like that for her. And trying to push her into "there" may backfire. Please forgive me if I sound unkind.

2) ok, take a breath-- even in the best case scenario no pregnant daughter wants an overbearing mom and no sister in law appreciates a meddling mother in law. With difficult children, it's multiplied by 100. You need to let them find their way. I know it sucks and it's worrisome; I get it. Let them both know that you are available to them but they need to ASK. And stop volunteering info, advice, yourself... Know what I mean??

Hugs, hugs, hugs. You are between a rock and a hard place. You need to detach a bit. Let her know she needs help & treatment. And that's where you will help.

Thank you. I needed to hear that. And you are 1000% right. I felt it. I saw myself doing it and couldn't contain myself. I am completely sliding back into that codependancy cycle again....time to step off.

I think I need to do for ME tonight...maybe a mani/pedi would be nice....

Thank you. Seriously, from the bottom of my heart. This place is the only reason I have any shred of sanity left. I now kinda wish I could take back everything I said but oh well. What is done is done. Now I need to detach BIG time.

 

[AnnieO]

So I have a shipment going to Albany - how close is that to Auburn? I'm thinking I could stow away and come join you for that mani/pedi.

*sigh* lots of good thoughts for you... I cannot imagine what it must be like... But yes, I know that codependency cycle only too well.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

And now I get a text from her stating she is done and to please come get her. This is crazy. I cannot keep getting dragged into their drama. I told her I will only pick her up if she calls the program and asks if she can go back after she turns herself in to the police. I will only help her help herself now. Ugh...

 

[AnnieO]

Yes, Ma'am! You keep that up, girlfriend!

 

[rejectedmom]

PG, you are in such a difficult position and it is not easy to know when to step in and when to back off. An innocent life has been thrown into the mix which adds so much more concern. You have recieved alot of good advice already. I think that your last response to your daughter was right on target. A difficult child will use a pregnancy/baby to manipulate and suck a parent right back into their drama. It is so very wrong but they do it anyway.

My therapist told me that under no circumstances should I ever allow my difficult child to do this. This was when he was activily trying to have a baby with his girlfriend. The therapist told me to never take his baby into my home because it would just make more and more problems setting the child up as a pawn and also putting me at additional risk (emotional, physical and financial). She said that I should just notify DSS of a baby who will need services at birth.

Having been a foster mom for 25 years to abused, neglected and battered infants and children, (that is how difficult child came to me in the first place), the concept of not stepping in was hard to swallow. I understood why she told me to do this but I am not sure how I would have done if the baby had been born. I know it would have been very hard to put the baby into the system wondering what kind of home he/she would get. I also know that I was an excellent foster mom and that there are many other good ones out there. Nevertheless it would be so very hard to make that decision.

I guess the best you can do at this time is to stay strong and keep a watchul eye while not entering into unnecessary drama..Easier said than done. (((HUGS))) -RM

 

[toughlovin]

You have gotten really good advice so far and taken it already!! You are in such a tough position because of course you want to protect that innocent baby. Truth is there is not a whole lot you can do while the baby is in the womb.... but when she gives birth (or is close to it), if things are not going well then calling CPS may be your best option but you are not there yet.

I have to say as much as he is an addict I am kind of liking M at this point. I think his text to you was respectful but also setting an appropriate boundary. I am sure he is overwhelmed and yet he seems to be mostly trying to do the right thing which is good.

I think the best thing you can do for that baby is to do what you can to keep a positive relationship with your daughter and that means continuing to walk that tightrope of supporting her and loving her while at the same time not enabling her. A hard tightrope to stay on sometimes... and I think all of us that walk it have a few tumbles at time. Thank goodness for this board for the soft landings!!! So it seems with the latest texts that you are doing a good job walking that line and continue to do that.

Let them know you are there when they want advice, and yes bite your tongue bloody when they don't. I hope M, if he is using recognizes his relapse and gets help soon. I hope like anything that your daughter does not start using because of course that is awful for the baby.... I think if you do think she is using again then calling CPS now would be in order. My hope is that she will go back to that program and get the helps she needs.

thinking of you today,

TL

 

[PatriotsGirl]

OMW. So she asks me for the program director's number and I gave it to her thinking - great! YAY! I get out there and she has a major attitude, still fighting with M (come to find out the whole argument was over him taking her laptop last night??!), and tells me no way is she turning herself in but she will go back to program, but she cannot get a hold of program director. Lovely. So I tell her if she calms down, I will bring her to my house and we will contact program director and if we cannot get a hold of her, we will need to look at other places. We leave and of course, her and M are texting back and forth and then - she asks me to take her back there. That he is her baby daddy and she needs to go back and work it out.

I told her that I have a life and a job. I cannot drive out there every time those two have an argument. That they needed to take ALL the energy they spend fighting and get JOBS. If they can do that, they will rock at life!! Told her they have 8 months to figure it out and get their koi together. She said she knows. I also told her that the only help I will be willing to offer at this time is when she is serious about going back to the program. Other than that, I want them to keep me out of it and work on getting ready for that baby.

She told me no way is he using because she would have his butt if he was. Whatever. I don't believe a word either one has to say...

And all of that koi and taking another two and a half hours out of a work day, is going to make detaching SO much easier... :/

 

[Nancy]

PG please know that I care about you and respect you and would never say anything that I thought would upset you and so I hesitate to respond and almost didn't. Neither your difficult child or the boyfriend is ready or capable of taking care of a baby in their current condition. This same scenario is played out in so many families every day and it is a heartbreak for all involved. First I agree that you need to step back. This is their life to handle and handle it they must. If they are having a baby together they better figure out what they are going to do and how they are going to get along for the baby's sake.

Next I believe it is time for your difficult child to honestly look at her options and do it quickly. Are you willing to have her come home and you raise the baby? You said your husband will not allow that. You know if you take her back home that is exactly what will happen. You will never be able to put her out of the house. The likelihood of staying clean until the birth is very slim. And even if she does there is a good chance she will relapse after the birth. I just do not think having a baby is going to be the impetus for her to get clean and stay clean. Everything is screaming out that this is not a good situation. Is she willing to think about adoption?

I'm going to speak from my heart now and hope you understand what I am saying. My husband and I adopted our daughter. Her bm was in much the same position as your difficult child although I don't believe she was using drugs but I do know she was an alocholic who had been in treatment and did drink while she was pregnant. Our difficult child did not deserve the baggage that she was born with and forced to carry throughout her life. As much as my husband and I tried to undo the harm caused we could not. She just told me the other day that every day she thinks of at least three different ways she can die. She is tormented in so many ways. She is not happy and has no peace and it breaks our heart. We gave her a loving stable environment and anything she could want and every opportunity available yet she did not have the genetic makeup to take advantage of any of it. She could not overcome what she was born with. She continues to make poor choice after poor choice. There is a good possibility she will end up living on the street at some point. husband and I are not young and we will not be here to rescue her, nor do we want to play that role anymore. We are tired and worn out and our hearts cannot stand further heartbreak.

I don't know what the answer is for your difficult child but she needs to start looking at her options and deciding what she is going to do. And you need to be clear about the role you will play in all of this. She needs someone to talk to other than family, she needs counseling to help her figure this out. She is no more stable now than she was a month ago when she had bullets flying over her head. She may not be using right now but her thought process is still in the same place. And you are being torn just like you were back then.

As always, you are in my thoughts.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Nancy, I whole heartedly agree. I told difficult child in the car today that neither one of them was ready for a baby. I also reminded her that has just a few weeks left to make a decision and that I would support her in either choice.

I do not want to raise more children. husband and I are thrilled that we are so close to being empty nesters. We want to freely enjoy the rest of our lives. But I don't think I could turn my back on a part of me and let them go into the "system". I don't think husband could either. I honestly don't know what we would do if actually facing that situation.

It is an absolute horror movie and there is nothing I can do about it...

 

[recoveringenabler]

PG, I've been reading this with interest. I think Nancy gave you some very valuable insight which you may want to share with your difficult child. Perhaps if she can look down the road a bit, and try to figure out what is best for the baby, she may be able to consider other options right now. It is a possible heartbreak no matter how you look at it. Nancy's story about adoption is very sad. I have a biological daughter who had all the benefits Nancy's adopted daughter had and my daughter ended up in a very similar life as Nancy's. Having children is a risk even when they are your bio kids.

As far as the grandparent side of it, it can get dicey. I stayed out of my daughter's parenting life until my granddaughter was 11 when I found out some things I hadn't known that my granddaughter shared with me, and that was the final straw. However, from the moment she was born, even though I wasn't actually raising her, I was the responsible adult she could count on. I was the one who arranged a lot, paid for a lot, listened, took action, went to talk to the teachers, insisted on certain appointments, got her into camp, plays, after school activities, was there when my difficult child acted badly, was there ALL THE TIME. And now I am raising her. We went through some pretty hard times in the beginning. It's not been easy. I tell you this because it appears you are about to embark on a similar journey. Stepping in and out to care for your grandchild has it's ups and downs and big time sorrows too. For me, it turned around and I can see how taking my granddaughter, although a very difficult choice for many, many reasons, has turned out to be an enormous positive. She turned all kinds of corners and is a wonderful kid. Therapy, time, patience, support, lots of love and a wonderful fiance who she just adores, all worked in our favor. But, just so you know, it is not an easy path with our own difficult child's, their parenting skills or lack thereof, the desire to help when you can't, being manipulated in when you don't want to be there............it's pretty tiring. And, we're in our 60's and believe me when I tell you this, raising kids when you are older is an ENTIRELY different experience on so many levels, only one of which is that you are just TIRED!! I just don't have the robust energy I had at 30 something when my daughter was a teenager. You don't have the same patience either. But, there are also many joys too, it's clearly a mixed bag. I feel lucky because my granddaughter is not afflicted with a mental illness and has a very normal personality, is kind, compassionate, funny, smart, does very well in school, is respectful, etc. It could have easily gone the other way and I would be raising another difficult child. Which is the risk you face. Sigh.

I'm sharing my experience so you can look at the whole picture. It's easier for us to say we won't involve ourselves in the child's life, but really, once you look at that baby, who resembles YOU or your husband, it's really hard to turn your back. And, then what? Do you raise that child? Our difficult child's have no real clue what it's like to be a parent, and even once they are, they can remain clueless and leave that child at risk.

What a remarkable ocean of different feelings and desires and thoughts.............there is no right or wrong, you and she will do what you do and find your way..........and if/when a baby comes you'll all deal with it and make choices along the way. My heart goes out to you, you are at the mercy of the choices she is making and has made and a new life is on it's way...............(((HUGS)))) We're all here for you, this tattered and tired tribe of moms..............you're not alone.

 

[lovemysons]

Hi PG,

I have not read everything that is going on right now with your difficult child as I am involved with a BIG home move.
But just wanted you to know that I am praying for your daughter, the baby and the outcome of the situation.

You are a very supportive mom...I hope you will take time to care for self too!
hugs to you...gotta go for now but will try and read up/catch up later.
LMS