Venting, updating, just very conflicted right now.

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Lil, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    My son called last night and just had to talk to us…in person…because he can’t say much at the shelter without it being everyone’s business. So we went, picked him up. Let him talk. Much is happening. Not all bad. So I’m not sure what I’m feeling.

    First, I just got a call and he starts bell ringing for the Salvation Army today. It doesn’t pay much, will be over on Christmas Eve, and they’ll take 10% for his room and board at the shelter, but it’s a job. He told us last night he expects to be hired by a company that cleans one of our state office buildings here. Another man at the shelter just quit his job there in favor of another cleaning service, so we’ll see. Hopefully he’ll get hired, but as he starts today at noon bell ringing, he may not have gone to apply. He was planning to though and last night said that he might have two jobs, bell ringing and cleaning…so I think he’s applying, he’ll just have to find the time.

    Oh - and he is seeing his counselor. In fact, she picked him up for his last session! Apparently my really quite brilliant 19 year old son can't figure out how to read a city bus map. :rolleyes:

    That's the good news.

    He spent a good long while last night just griping about J-1 and the shelter in general. Apparently he got into it with J-1 earlier in the week and almost came to blows. The head of the shelter wanted to talk to him because he was so obviously livid, and my son was sure that he would catch heck about that and sure enough, as soon as he walked out of the office J-1 was there saying, “Oh, ran to ___ about it, huh?” But they apparently patched things up as well as they every do. J-1 still making him crazy. There was lots of ranting about how J-1 never does his chores and still smokes pot and is rude and still he doesn’t get kicked out; how he is the only one following the rules and if he were to step out of line he’d get kicked out but it doesn’t happen to anyone else. Playing the martyr, as he has done for years. There was lots of complaining about the people he’s being forced to live with…how everyone there is crazy (there’s a guy who apparently is a vocal Satanist (kind of odd at a Salvation Army shelter), wears a cloak and talks about summoning demons), or has criminal records (one guy who apparently has served time for manslaughter and been in and out of jail since he was a juvenile), and the best guy he’s met, “D”, is a 31 year old former neo-Nazi (this is the guy with the cleaning job).

    He went on to say that he plans on getting an apartment – with D and J-1! (And J-1’s new girlfriend, who is an ex-girlfriend of my sons!) When I mentioned that living with J-1 wasn’t the best idea, he kind of blew, saying he didn’t have a choice, that everyone he’s friendly with are friends of J-1 first, that he can’t afford a place on his own and he only can stay at the shelter until January (which is true) and he has to get out of there. J-1 is a very personable kid. It takes a long time to see him as the bully/user that he is. Heck, we used to really like him, enough that we let him live with us! So yeah…I can see where he can attract friends better than my son, who is much less of a people-person. I can’t help hoping that J-1 doesn’t get work (he hasn’t yet) and that D will say no to living with him for that reason. But I don’t know anything about this guy other than he’s a former neo-Nazi, was a Marine, is homeless, and plans to go to Virginia in the spring. Oh, and he drinks a LOT. He was turned away from the shelter earlier this week when they did the night-time breathalyzer and ended up sleeping under a bridge and waking up covered in snow. My son said the guy blew a .14 and he couldn’t even tell he’d been drinking…it takes a lot to build that tolerance. On the up side, he said that he told D all about our situation and that D was very impressed and had the utmost respect for us for still giving our son the things he needs instead of just cutting him off and turning our backs on him…so I guess he’s at least hearing that from a 3rd party.

    Of course, what this all boils down to is that in my heart, I want him to come home!!! I don’t want my son living with convicts and alcoholics (not to mention J-1) and satanic wacko’s! I don’t want him around bad people! Of course, as Jabber pointed out, he wasn’t doing much better in the line of friends when he lived at our house. He still had friends who were in and out of jail (if not prison – though that’s probably more a function of age over morality) and who did drugs or drank a lot. I know that can’t happen - he can't come home. First, Jabber doesn’t think he should and I won’t fight it this time. I know he has to learn to make his own way and he wasn’t learning at home. We gave him everything, every opportunity, and it did nothing. On top of that – he was stealing from us! I have 700 reasons to NOT let him come home and only one to have him…I miss him.

    Sadly, as I told Jabber during my crying jag last night, I miss him, but I don’t miss HIM. I don’t miss the kid who steals and lies and screams and punches holes in doors and can’t have a conversation without peppering it with “eff” this and “mother-effer” that! I miss the son who spoke to me with some respect. Who was helpful and obedient (even grudgingly). I miss my son from about age 12 and down. I miss the young man he was supposed to be! I don't understand his behavior. I don't understand this life. I was a good kid! I did everything right when I was a kid. I respected my parents. I went to college. I went to law school. I followed the rules. I tried to be a good mother. I tried to teach him right from wrong. I treated my son with love. I respected his individuality. I didn’t push him into things he didn’t like. I was kind to his friends. And now he’s out of our home and living like this…This was not supposed to be his life. It was not supposed to be my life!

    I’m tired of having this ache in my chest and being near tears half the time. I swear, I cry at church almost every Sunday during a sermon or a prayer or even the choir anthem – it’s embarrassing! I’m tired of thinking about the holidays and wondering how rude it is to not invite his new buddies… that I either don’t want anything to do with or who I’ve never met. How I’m going to face the family at Thanksgiving if he doesn’t go with us. What I’m doing for Christmas. I’m so tired of the whole thing.

    I'm just ranting. I know there's no other way and I think that's the worst part. I feel so powerless here.
  2. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Be very careful.

    Manipulation is a subtle thing, and our difficult child children are exquisitely clever.

    I know. I hate that part. I don't even go out when I am likely to spring a leak.

    It seems like the ultimate betrayal of myself.

    I never cry.

    And I absolutely never cry in public.

    Except that sometimes, I do.

    It's like having a liver fall out or something.

    That embarrassing.



    And I hate it too when something bad has just happened and someone comes to the door. After I have been smart and prepared enough not to leave the house, someone has the gall to come to my door and say something really rotten like, "How are you?"

    And the next thing I know, I can not ~ literally can not ~ stop telling her how I am.

    For Heaven's sake.

    I could be angry at my children forever, just for that.
  3. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Wow...those last few paragraphs got all whiny and "Me. Me. Me." didn't they? I would have edited them...but I missed the 15 minute window going to get my lunch.

    Sorry...didn't mean to do that. I think it became kind of stream of consciousness there. :oops:
  4. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Oh, I know how very manipulative he is. Jabber's take on the whole conversation was basically it was a, "This sucks let me come home." plea. I'm less sure...but I'm sure that was in there somewhere.

    Not sure how the part you quoted would be manipulation though...telling us someone else thought it was nice we didn't turn our backs completely. We think it's awfully dam nice of us too. lol
  5. Echolette

    Echolette Well-Known Member


    like Cedar, I see that line as manipulation. He is softening you up by flattering you, trying to invoke the "you'd do anything for me, mom, right"? side of you. Much more clever than being pathetic or critical.


    we have all been where you are. Missing our kids in their former selves, sure that that kid lives in there somewhere. Some one...was it you, Cedar? Actually threw out the picture she had of her son as a child...because seeing it was befuddling, obfuscating the truth. The truth is...he is who he is today. The one you describe.

    This is who he is now.

    This one can't come home because he doesn't exist anymore. You can mourn him, but you can't reincarnate him. I'm sorry. I wish you could. I wish I could bring my talented drummer loving sweet self-soothing boy back too, but I cannot.

    Just try to be with what is. Try to stop fighting it. Try to allow it..that is the practice my meditation teacher encourages...allowing..not even going as far as accepting...just...letting what is be. Let him be as he is. Let your sorrow be what it is. Allow things to be as they are.

    My other beacon, Thich Nhat Hahn, says "we suffer less when we learn to suffer well." and, with some humor, he adds that there is no dearth of opportunity to practice. Fighting back, raging against the dark, those things only make you suffer more...AND THEY DON"T HELP YOUR SON.

    We know what will happen if he comes home, right? He will be sweet long? Not very, probably. Soon he will be cursing and complaining. He will make the house a place of stress. He will break a rule, or two. must know this...he WILL steal from you.

    How will this have helped him?

    You are in a hard place. So is your husband. So is difficult child. You each have your own path. My hope for you is that some of your very very legitimate distress can ease as you let go of trying to fix things for him.

    Hugs to you today, and over the weekend. As always, we support you in whatever you choose to do.

  6. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Lil, you are such a kind lady and I "get" your angst. You are grieving (like we all do) for the man who doesn't exist and isn't your son. I had to go through "the child I have" when he was very young, but hoped he'd change. He did get a little less crazy, but he is who he is. He will never be with us at holidays with happy siblings all being so glad to see him. In fact, he is content to be alone on the holidays, with his son, and not see anyone. I can tell you, I feel how you feel when I read your posts. This little toddler, so angelic looking, tiny for his age, graceful features, would stomp on other kid's hands and laugh or shove them into walls and laugh then tell me, "I did it on accident." That was his famous words, even if I saw or everyone else said, "DID NOT!"

    I remember how he used to bite his lower lip when he was about to pound somebody.

    Do I miss my son for the holidays? I miss my kind, caring son who always put others before himself and loves his family and would never hurt a fly, but that is not who he is. Or who he ever was. Or who he ever will be. So I think we grieve who they really are before we can accept it.

    Hugs. You take good care of yourself. Say hi to Jabby.
  7. dstc_99

    dstc_99 Well-Known Member

    Sadly I agree with the ladies. Telling you that someone he knows thinks you guys are good parents is a way of making you feel validated without him having to do the validating.

    While I completely understand you not wanting him to associate with these people I also understand that he needs to make that change. When he gets a stable job will the community have resources to assist him with inexpensive housing? Is there an option for him to rent a room somewhere for cheap? I find that when people look for a way out they often make the hurdles much bigger than they need to be. IE: my difficult child is looking to rent an apartment. She should be looking to rent a room. A room is much cheaper. A room requires less of a deposit. A room generally doesn't have major utility charges.

    He needs to be given a little guidance and maybe even a small amount of help but other than that he needs to figure it out. You could have a little brainstorming session. Not a what can you do for difficult child session but a what can difficult child do for difficult child session.

    Just a few ideas to give him:
    1. Is there a member of the family or community that owns a place he could rent or stay at? Someone who might be willing to wave his first months rent and then have him pay that month back over the next few months or the year? Are there some low rent apartments in town that might be able to help.

    2. You all are members of a church do they have resources to help individuals trying to get back on their feet?

    3. Do the shelters have contacts who they work with the help people get low cost housing?

    4. Do your family members have contacts that could help him?

    5. What is he willing to do to earn these things?

    It sounds silly but most kids don't think to ask the simple questions. They depend on us to provide the stuff and the answers. If you plant the seeds then he has a generic map of where to go and what to do. If he asks for advice or guidance while trying to navigate the map then provide it. BUT make him do the work.

    Mine figured out real quick that it was cheaper to buy groceries than it was to eat out. She also figured out that expensive items were purchased at Holidays as gifts not everyday as a normal item. It took time and slow hints but eventually she figured it out.

    Introduce him to a can of tuna a loaf of bread and some mayo. HEHE It's great protein, easy to fix, and cheap as cheap can be. Better yet get him crackers they don't mush up as easy. Peanut butter is a great option too. No cooking required.
  8. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Some difficult children learn. Others don't even listen. Still others sometimes trash the places they are generously given to stay at by goodhearted people. It has happened on this forum often...such a story. A difficult child trashes the house or refuses to pay and takes off or does drugs in the house, even a relatives house.

    You know your own difficult child best. I know my son will not listen to anything I say and do it. He may actually LISTEN and think it's good at the time, but he will never follow through. You know if your adult children are different; if they learn by experience or keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. You know if your grown kid is reliable enough not to trash somebody's offered place of refuge or if he/she will not care if it is trashed.

    I think everyone has to proceed depending on the personality of their grown child. I personally did not tell my over 18ers what to do. All of them made thier own decisions and, except for 37, figured it out on their own and did well. I would never have asked anyone I knew to house Mr. 37. He would have, at the time he was homeless, probably stolen from them, trashed the house, and maybe even trashed it on purpose. Not all difficult children would do that, but mine would have. So I never would have asked anyone to help him out. And anyone who tried (which was his own talking in a piteous way about himself) was sorry and he was thrown out of everywhere he'd been taken in until his father finally bought a condo and let him move in. And that was not smooth either.

    KNOW THY GROWN CHILD ;) Do what is safe regarding THAT grown child.

    It is not always safe to refer your grown child to nice people who want to help. It all depends on how badly difficult child your child is.
  9. dstc_99

    dstc_99 Well-Known Member

    Too true MWM!

    That is why I am recommending Lil give him some random thoughts on the issues not do it for him. It would be up to the people he approaches to assist him. It would be by their rules and their guidelines. Lil wouldn't have to be involved at all. I used to assist people with financial issues through a church organization. We did these things based off the information we had and we helped where we could. We didn't ask anything in return and we never assumed that everyone coming to us was honest. Other than family that he could speak to about possible options the church and organizations would be doing impersonal to an extent. Working within guidelines that are established as to what assistance they can and will give.

    If Lil's difficult child decides to abuse those things there is nothing she or Jabber can do about it. Plus as long as he is using assistance other than family members then they are not part of it. Maybe that is something to consider. Don't point out that family members might be able to help. Point him towards churches and organizations/businesses that could assist instead. I guess the reason I say family members is less for them to help him personally but more for the advice and assistance they could offer. A family member might know about an organization that could help.

    I think kids sometimes don't think outside the box. They think "I can't live at home so I must go get my own home." What they don't realize is that most of us didn't go from living at home with mom and dad to living in suburbia over night. We lived in college dorms or shared apartments and sometimes had parental help with the financing of these things. Our first "homes" were apartments or trailers or rental homes that we could barely afford. difficult child's for some reason think their lives should be cushy. Or they go to the opposite extreme and shun it all to live on the streets.
  10. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    dstc_, you are right. There are all kinds of difficult children and their thinking isn't like ours, that's for sure!

    My kids all did know that they would have to start small, except 37. He actually refused to live in an apartment and took out those no down payment loans that helped throw our country into the huge recession. He was horrible with money. He made a lot and blew a lot because HE HAD TO HAVE IT NOW! Of course, it came back to bite him in the butt. He has filed bankruptcy. I do think difficult children, more than other young adults, tend to have magical thinking. They want this and that and don't think about the pathway to get there. They just want to snap their fingers's there.

    So your point is good. And I agree that once difficult child makes his decision it is then on him to behave right. We can guide them and then it's up to them. You are 100% correct.
  11. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Lil, I so understand how you are feeling. I have been there. I have grieved for the son I used to have.
    Echo said it perfectly.
    I remember when things started going bad for my difficult child and he would start screaming "I just wish everyone would leave me alone, I can't wait to get out of this house and live my life, I'm so sick of your rules, etc...." The sad reality is that he got exactly what he wanted. He's living his life the way he wanted but is very quick to tell you how much it sucks. I hate that my only child is homeless.

    I for the most part have become immune to the subtle ways my difficult child will try to guilt me into doing things for him. I suppose that is also why I very rarely hear from him because he knows I cannot be persuaded. He has broken my heart and destroyed my trust in him too many times. My husband and I have paid for apartments and also purchased a house for our difficult child to live in. We bought clothes, food a cell phone we even bought a car and told him all you have to do is get a job and stick with it. All of this was never good enough for him.

    The only way I have been able to find peace is by letting him go, really letting him go. I will always love him and will continue to pray for him but that is all I can do for him. He knows that I do not trust him at all and I have told him the only way he will every earn my trust back is in his actions not his words and at that, it will take years.

    My difficult child as well as many others know how to get the help they need, they are not stupid or they would not have been able to survive the lives they are living. They are very good at making people think they are helpless.
    I do think it's a good idea to offer suggestions to them as to where they can seek out help. Like MWM said
    As for crying in church, I do it all the time but not because I'm sad but because I truly feel the presence of God and the love He has for me. I also am part of a life group at church and they know all about my difficult child. They have never been judgmental, they have been loving and supportive. God knows your heart, he knows every tear you shed and because of this never be embarrassed.

    As for the holidays coming up it really doesn't matter what family or friends think. If they are close enough to you then they know the truth about what's going on and if they're not, well it's really none of their business and if they want to pass judgment on you that's their problem. We can't control our difficult child's or what other people think. It has taken me years to get to this point of acceptance.

    Sending you hugs and wishing you peace
  12. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Beautifully stated Tanya........I know those words are borne out of've expressed it well. Thank you.
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  13. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    1. No. No one. There are some low rent apartments, that is what he's planning on getting with these guys.
    2. No. Very small congregation.
    3. Yes. That's where #1 comes in.
    4. No. No one around here. Closest family is over 100 miles away.
    5. Beats the hell out of me.

    He called tonight just in a STATE. He's always been a person who I think gets hypoglycemic and he missed lunch because he left before they served and missed dinner. He signed up for a late dinner and they gave him a chili dog. You'd think a homeless person would not be picky, huh? Well that's what all the guys at the shelter thought too. He hates chili. He eats hot dogs, burgers, chicken sandwiches, plain. No ketchup, no mayo, and certainly nothing spicy. So he didn't eat. By 8:00 he was just starving and practically hysterical.

    I admit, I went, mostly with the intention of chewing him a new one for the way he spoke to me. You don't call a person you want a favor from and yell and scream...even if it isn't directed at the person. He ranted, he went on and on about how everyone gets away with everything and the rules he follows are always broken by everyone else and if he did those things he'd get kicked out and on and on and on and on. J-1 doesn't do his chores and J-1 failed a drug test and J-1 still gets to stay, but HE wouldn't get that consideration. Any calm suggestion was shot down. Could he take a sandwich if he's going to miss lunch? NO! No food outside the cafeteria. Has he asked? NO! It wouldn't do any good anyway. And so on and so forth. Someone tells him to start work at 7:30 cleaning after breakfast. Another tells him that he should wait until 8:00 when the cold weather people leave. He gets into it with person #1. Why? How about simply saying to them, "That guy told me to do it at 8:00"? Well that never occurs to him.

    Oh, and he apparently gets made fun of because Mommy buys stuff - of course, the same person who makes fun of him uses the stuff I buy. Yeah, J-1.

    The worst part was when I offered him the only $2 I had in my wallet so he could get some type of food on his lunch break. He wouldn't take it. It was a matter of principle. I scoffed. (I really didn't mean to, the sarcastic chuckle just came out.) He insisted on knowing why I laughed. At this point, I was so tired of his crap, I said it, "It's a pity you didn't have principle when you were at home, because there's 700 reasons you aren't there now!"

    I admit, I felt bad after I said it, but I am so TIRED of his, "I'm such a victim" attitude!

    It's safe to say I don't miss him tonight.

    We settled a few things. #1, J-1 is more of a people person than he is. People like him better, even though he isn't a good person because he knows how to talk to people. #2, if he every calls me like that again, I'll hang up. I actually don't mind occasionally buying him a meal, but he better be polite if he's asking!

    I need to reread this thread. I'm sure there's more I wanted to say. It's late so I'm not now.
  14. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    Man I have a feeling I am going to be feeling this same way really soon. Not looking forward to this. I pray my daughter goes lives with my brother.
  15. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member is on her whether it works out with your brother. That means she follows his rules, whatever they will be. If she doesn't you have to assume she knew she'd end up on the street. Heck, if she behaved better, she could still live with YOU.

    Our difficult children do Occupational Therapist (OT) always value what we do, such as stability, a warm house, a soft bed, a lack of chaos and a place to thrive in the conventional way.

    I hope your daughter lives with your brother too and that it works out well and that they form a strong and loving bond. Sending you warm and caring vibes and lots of good juju (whatever that is) ;)

    For the record, when somebody sends good juju I an't stop myself from thinking of the candy JuJu Beads, which I loved as a kid...tee hee!
  16. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Good Morning Lil, I hope you were able to get a good nights rest. Our difficult child's can be so exhausting!!

    I don't think you need to feel bad about what you said, you spoke the truth. What is key here you are tired of the "I'm such a victim" attitude.

    I know that feeling all too well. My difficult child always blames others and then follows up with what he "deserves". It's that double whammy of victim/entitlement attitude. I pray that someday my difficult child will stop blaming others for how screwed up his life is and he will start accepting responsibility for his own actions. Until that happens for him and so many like him, their lives will continue to spiral out of control. Until they are able to stop blaming others they will never be successful at holding down a job or have a meaningful relationship. My difficult child has had several good jobs but he could only last a few months, 6 at the most. He would either quit because of his arrogant attitude or get fired because of the same. It dumb founded me when he would complain about his boss saying "the guys an idiot and doesn't know the first thing about running a business", yes he would say things like this about people who had been in business 20, 30 even 40 years.

    I got to the point with my difficult child that I stopped offering any advice because it just made him more angry and he would go into a tirade about why that would never work, or that he had already tried it and it didn't work. I would listen to him and just very simply say things like "I'm really sorry you are having such a tough time" It really helped me to detach.

    I know you love your son, you wouldn't be hurting the way you are if you didn't but you need to love yourself too. Take some time to do something good for YOU.
  17. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Morning all.

    I actually did send him a text saying I was sorry for what I said about the money, that it was true, but it was unkind, and my intent is not to hurt him. He'll probably not even see it or ignore it, but I feel better for having said it.

    I agree this is what he needs. But listen? Not so much. Not to us. Like I said last night, I couldn't even get him to ask if they'll give him a sandwich to take with him. Truthfully, housing here is not that expensive. He could likely find a one-bedroom or efficiency apartment for $300 or so. Minimum wage is $1300 per month, gross. Add food, utilities, phone, student loan, all the other necessary expenses, could be really tight but doable. Will he work that hard? I don't know but I doubt it very much.

    Single worst trait he has in my opinion. If he follows the rules he resents it because he is the ONLY one following the rules and everyone else breaks the rules and gets away with it but he's sure if HE did he'd get caught and punished. If he does something wrong, it's always someone elses fault. And of course there's the defeatist attitude. The "why do I bother because nothing ever goes right for me". He has to be perfect to keep from being in trouble he thinks...The sandwich thing last night was a perfect example. No one's allowed in the pantry and no food is allowed out of the cafeteria. But J-1 asked a monitor if he could go raid the pantry and was allowed to. He's just so bent out of shape, since he was starved and he got a chili dog that he hates. Did he ask if he could too? No! It's against the rules! But J-1 asked and they said yes, so he could ask too, right? NO! It's against the rules. Fine. So I suggest he calmly tell them, "If I go at 11:45 I'll miss lunch and dinner and not get back until late and I get hypoglycemic and I really need to be able to eat, can I have a sandwich?" He can't do that. It's against the rules. But why can't he ask? Because it's against the rules. "If you ask and they say no, you say okay, thanks, and go down the road. You won't get in trouble for asking." Him, "If I know they'll say no and they do say no then why bother?" Because they MIGHT say YES! The rules are theirs! They can bend them if they want to! Just like going in the pantry!

    He's the saddest person I know most of the time. The most defeated. His life sucks. He has no friends. People like J-1 and they just tolerate him and would probably hate him if he stops being friends with J-1. These people are his friends, but by the same token, he can't stand them, they're criminals and alcoholics and idiots and useless and lazy and .... you get the idea. He's better than them. Still, he does everything right and nothing goes right for him. He makes plans and they get ruined. He breaks a rule he gets caught, but no one else does. The world is against him.

    If I could change one thing about him, it would be to make him a more positive person. His woe-is -me attitude both angers me and breaks my heart.
  18. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Several of you have mentioned no longer giving him advice. Personally, I quit (well, mostly anyway) giving him advice a while ago. Sick of the arguments and being told "I tried that and it didnt work!" every time. I've told him multiple times what he needed to do to job hunt. I got the above quote repeatedly. I finally told him this summer that its my job to teach people how to job hunt. It is as I currently help offenders make video resumes and have been gearing up to teach an employability skills class. I have a room full of books, granted some a bit dated, on the subject and spend a lot of time on the internet at work researching different job related issues. I've held more jobs at one time than he has held in his life but I dont know what I'm talking about. Got tired of it so now he gets pissy sometimes when we are talking and I dont say much because I'm tired of beating my head against the wall.

    As far as family helping, other than Lil's brother and sister in law, who arent in a position to help due to her elderly father living with them and she retired early to take care of him, both of our families live over an hour away. I spoke with my mom yesterday and she actually mentioned being troubled about the possibility of him asking to stay with them. I kinda laughed and told her that probably wont happen. Mom and dad are SUPER religious and he would be required to go to church with them...three times a week, to the local shelter to help feed, and whatever other volunteer thing they are currently doing. They are retired so would always be at the house and wouldnt give him a car to go job hunting, they would drive him. In short, HE WOULD HATE IT!!

    As to the church members helping, I will expand a bit on Lil's comment. Yes, its a small congregation. Our pastor does have a discretionary fund to give people in need assistance but it is geared more towards getting some groceries or gas to make it through the week. I dont think he gives out more that $30 or so at a time. There is a local organization of churches that people can petition to help keep their utilities from being cut off but the Salvation Army Shelter covers all the resources for finding low cost housing other that government assisted housing and they help with that. If a member of the congregation were to offer to let him stay there I would have to VERY strenuously object as he would only take advantage of them the same way he has us.

    As far as what he's willing to do to earn and obtain these things; well lets be honest, thats the reason we're on this board calling him our difficult child. Because he thinks these things should be given to him and what little money he earns can be blown on what he wants. That is one of the big lessons he needs to learn. Life isnt easy and things arent handed to you just because you want them.

    So yeah, Lil wants him to come home and I want him to make his own.
  19. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    It's not really that I want him to come home, more that I want him to come home and be the person I always thought he would and should be. That is to say, I want a different kid. I guess we all do.
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  20. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Oh, I think a difficult child trait is a standing philosophy of "I can't." I am too frustrated these days to give difficult child advice. It's like talking to the air. He acts very interested while I'm talking then never does what I said because "It won't work." "I can't." "It's too far away." "It's not feasible." Blah, blah, blah.

    An example is I spent my day off calling Missouri psychologists because he claimed he'd go for help if I could find any that were open after work hours. Well, I found several and some took his phone number. I asked him if anyone called him and he said, "I can't afford it" which is different from "I don't have the time." If one problem is solved, there is another problem he invents. He can certainly afford it if he can buy video systems and their expensive accessories the minute they come out. Recently he purchased a top-of-the-line 60 inch smart television. I saw it on Skype. It's enormous. Must have cost him a mint. He spends thousands on these things, but then can't go for therapy just because of a co-pay. Like most difficult children, his priorities are screwed up. He is always broke on a very good salary, and it's because he has that "gotta have it NOW" difficult child syndrome. I do give him credit for working, but he does nothing to help himself and is constantly in angst.

    I am getting irritated just talking about it so...hey, Lil and Jabby, I know the frustration. So now I just listen and say "uh huh" "ok" "Yes" and very little else. I refuse advice by saying "You are a capable man and know what works best for you. I don't." Period. Sometimes that makes him hang up on me but, since I no longer care if he does that...oh, well. Life goes on.
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