...and it all falls apart.

[Lil]

I meant that you should mention to him that every week or so is ok.

I'm not going to tell him NOT to contact me more than every week or so. Honestly, it isn't as though I'm MAD at him. Yes, he had his melt-down that led to this, but it wasn't even about US - it was about J. I see no reason at all why every few - which most people read as 3-4 - days is a bad thing. I can't even imagine what he'd think if I were to suddenly tell him to NOT let me know he's okay now and then, it would be so out of character for me - not to mention just plain wrong. I've told him simply to send me a text every few days to tell me he's alive and well. I'm not contacting HIM. I'm not giving advice. I'm not offering help. I'm not even asking what he's doing. "Hey Mom. I'm alive and well." That's what I asked for.

I honestly can't EVEN BELIEVE you have ANY problem with THAT!

 

[pasajes4]

Lil, We are mothers. I have 0 contact with my oldest son. I do not have a working phone # to contact him. He has my contact information. There is not a day that goes by that I don't wish he would contact me. I have told him the same thing. He does not contact anyone in the family for whatever reason. I know that he is working on his life and that only he can do it. It still hoovers.

 

[Lil]

Yeah...okay...maybe I should have been meaner.

He just called asking me to pay for one night at the motel he was in. It was $160 for three nights, but he had to go where he is instead of a big city where there were youth hostels for $40/night and abundant homeless shelters. There were additional charges (wi-fi and no fridge/microwave so he had to buy food) and so it was more than he planned. Now he checked out four hours ago and he's not sure where to go or what to do and wanted another night...but not to pay for it like he paid for the first 3 nights. He said meeting people hadn't turned out like he thought it would.

Gee...maybe that PLANNING I mentioned would have been a good thing?

I told him no. I told him he'd only been there 3 days and he should have already checked out shelters/etc., before he had to check out.

He said his phone was almost dead and he has nowhere to charge it.

I already hate this.

 

[mof]

I don't blame you...He has to figure it out. If the shelter is his new community , then he needs to start there.

My heart is with you...we have been there...stay strong.

 

[JKF]

Stay strong and stick to your boundaries. It hurts them when we say no but it hurts them even more in the long run when we step in and rescue them. I'm a rescuer by nature so it's definitely hard to sit back and do nothing. Trust my word when I tell you it's best to let him figure it out himself. I still occasionally help my son but it's now on my terms. I no longer automatically step in and offer solutions. I let him figure it out himself especially in tough situations which unfortunately is often. I used to look things up for him, make calls, apply for services, find housing, set up appointments, etc. but I leave all of that to him now. And guess what? He does it. He gets angry and makes me feel guilty sometimes but I stick to my boundaries no matter what. It took a long time to break out of the "helping" pattern but it was the best thing I ever did for myself, my family and my son. I rarely post anymore but I often read and I'm always rooting for you lil!

 

[Lil]

He has GOT to quit calling me with a play by play of what's going on! I asked for a TEXT...every few days! But no, I have to know that he bought a tent at Wal-Mart and now was waiting for a bus to go to the city park. Of course, he may have missed the last bus and he has nowhere to plug in his phone and it looks like it's going to rain and on and on. I don't want to KNOW this! I told him to I have every confidence in him to figure this out. He said he wasn't sure he did. I know he's already VERY low on cash. I tried to not lecture. I tried to not say "I told you so." Eventually, after telling him there was nothing I could do to help and I know he'll be fine, the call ended.

Not soon enough.

 

[pasajes4]

Oh Lil, It's so hard when they are physically in your face, and sometimes even harder with that layer of great distance thrown in the mix. I would tell you to relax, but I know you won't be able to.

 

[Copabanana]

I hate France.

A dad. I have never been to France and want to go someday. I have heard that the people are cold, arrogant and snub you. Is that why you "hate" France or is it something else.

Lil. Really, I do not trust J one bit. I worry that J is trying to ingratiate and manipulate to find your son. I know you are very cautious. I just want to underscore that all of my antennae are up too.

PS It really, really sounds good.

 

[Copabanana]

OK. I am only now reading your last few posts. Sorry.

If it was me with my son I would make an appointment time for him to call in a few days or even a week, like COM did.

Remember she would only answer calls from her son once a week or something between certain hours. She did this to control her own anxiety so as to not be flooded all of the time--which is exactly what our sons want. They want us to carry their anxiety so as to minimize their own as well as their sense of responsibility.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I worry that J is trying to ingratiate and manipulate to find your son.

We don't worry he is, we KNOW he is and we aren't falling for it.

 

[Jabberwockey]

If it was me with my son I would make an appointment time for him to call in a few days or even a week, like COM did.

Lil can't NOT answer the calls when he calls whenever. Its a throwback to when her ex called from county jail and she didn't answer. He committed suicide that day.

 

[GoingNorth]

I visited France in the mid-80s. A certain class of Parisiennes can be aloof and even rude, especially if your French is lousy. Some who speak English will refuse to do so.

My French is ghastly, especially as I'm incapable of making a couple of sounds essential to the language.

However, once you get into the small towns and rural villages, the French folks living there are very warm and friendly. You might even get asked in for a coffee or a glass of fresh milk, or a glass of wine and some cheese or pastry.

I should warn you though, that much has changed in France, politically, and in terms of population make-up changing drastically and the attitudes of the populace changing as a result of that. Like America, the far-right is taking a strong hold of a substantial part of the population, for the same reasons as in America.

Let's just say that a lot of the Republican party's platform is not exclusive to the USA. If you research, you will see the same ideology popping up all over the world. The only difference is that Trump and Duterte are crazy. Not all the others are, which makes them even more dangerous.

 

[Copabanana]

Lil can't NOT answer the calls when he calls whenever.

Of course she must answer. Oh my heart goes out to you Lil.

 

[Lil]

Well, this is one for the record books. He left here Thursday with about $700. His hotel was $160 + internet and such.

He's broke.

He said he went to WalMart and bought a tent with the gift card I gave him...but the fact is I don't think he's ever even put one up. He called tonight, late, almost 10 our time, and said he'd apparently lost $80 out of his wallet and didn't have enough for the motel he was at. Meaning he doesn't even have $50 to his name. After a bit of debate, I tried to pay by phone, but they wouldn't let me. I was going to moneygram or Western Union the money, but all are closed. Finally I found a Super 8 that would let me pay by phone - If I'd email my credit card and driver's license front and back. This is nuts, I know, but I did it. One night only. (Yeah...I'll be reporting that card lost in a day or two and getting a new one.)

I told him...one night only. I told him he has to figure it out himself after this, no more help.

I can't freaking believe he ran through all that money in 3 days. I expected something like this eventually, but not so soon.

I told him I won't bail him out again - he's on his own. He's talking about Denver, which is much more expensive, but also has multiple shelters. He apparently has enough for a bus ticket.

This whole thing is unbelievable. Just over a week ago, he had a job and money enough to get his own place. How did this go so wrong so fast? We should never have paid the train ticket. We should have talked him out of this fiasco. Now he's two states away and practically penniless. It's crazy.

 

[GoingNorth]

Lil...the issue here is drugs, and I'm not talking weed. He's using something stronger if he went through that much money that quickly.

I also don't believe he "lost" the 80 dollars. 80 bucks will buy enough oxycodone for example, to keep a newish user quite "happy" for a few days, or street "bars" (Xanax) to do the same. His not seeming to know where the money went or was lost might also have been due to a benzo blackout. He could have spent it somehow and have zip memory of how, on what (likely more benzos, they lead to compulsive redosing during blackouts).

But you don't blow through 4-500 bucks in a few days with-o knowing where it went. Unless, he bought a top of the line mountaineering tent instead of a basic one-man popup, which is all he needs.

 

[Lil]

I am 99% sure he does not do hard drugs. He definitely loves weed and it's not cheap. Plus, I didn't say he doesn't know HOW he spent it. I'm sure he does, except the $80. It's just that he seems to think he can spend without paying attention and not pay the piper.

 

[GoingNorth]

OK. I have a vague idea that weed is a whole lot more $$$ than it was when I was smoking it, as well as being a whole lot stronger and various strains bred for different effects.

I also may not be able to get my head around how MUCH he may be smoking as i was never a heavy nor daily user.

I think though, that like me, your son has some serious executive function issues going on, which weed doesn't help at all.

There's certainly some planning issues and a need for distraction (I think part of the not being able to be alone is partly this.), and I think some "effort avoidance" stuff as well, which probably plays a role in the job issues. Not to mention drug tests.

And some companies are getting real anal. Gov't contractors were already obnoxious in the 70s, either not making allowances for weed staying in your system for up to 60 days and not being willing to test for dropping levels, or not accepting certain drugs even if you had proof that they were prescribed and they were present in therapeutic levels that matched your RX.

So, with the weed use and the prevalence of drug testing, he's got a real issue with drug testing unless he can pick up that job at the pizza place, and there there's the risk of an OWI if he's pulled over and has THC in his system because the cops don't test properly, either.

And would he be willing to work for a place that tested? Meaning giving up weed, in order to have a decent job, an apartment, and a vehicle, and maybe even a secure future?

I've been tested for work for so many years, especially as a military contractor for so many years, and privately as well, and yes, I've been turned down for jobs due to having even trace amounts of prescribed benzos in my system

 

[Kalahou]

In my humble opinion only, this sort of sounds like "rinse / repeat" ... by taking calls / answering texts so frequently and engaging in questions, detailed discourse, showing concern etc., you show and validate that you are still there for him / for his needs and wants, even if just to contact, to feel another presence in his desperation and doubt as to what he is going to do, to think you may be someone (again) who may (you already did) give in and rescue, as has happened before again and again, and which he no doubt believes will happen in a crunch. Sorry Lil, but it looks like you really do not want to detach, you want to keep the strings attached, keep connected, and he does not want to really let go and really does not want to be on his own either. I think he can sense your concern, your fear that he can't make it, and he in turn internalizes it also.

Of course he wants an adventure (why not?!) and wants to try, but he does not seem like one with the capable, adventurous, confident, outgoing temperament, and skills and knowledge to make it happen easily. (Maybe I’m wrong.) To pull up stakes and make a new life, to me it would take a real motivated, ambitious, efficient, go-getter person to make it happen the way he was thinking it would. (I don't think I could do it myself.) From your posts, I don’t really get that’s how he is. (?) What if he is not successful there? Do you really think this is the last time for you to fork over $$? Will he call you again for more $ tomorrow? Or eventually for a return train ticket? Will he return back to you?

To me, he seems still soooo young yet. And I do understand your reluctance to let go, especially when he seems so needy for a connection with you. I do know the love, I do know the fear. What experience does he have in a strange place to make a new life? You are right in recognizing that there was no planning or forethought. So what likelihood of success? What did he do before / where did he go when he was previously out of your house? I think "nothing is going to change now, if nothing changes" (that is repeated over and over on this site). Things here with you and son seem to be continuing on the same old road … If you continue to take his calls and answer his texts and bail him out, and need to know everything, what has changed? Are you detaching? Is he?

If the intent for his going to CO was to throw him into the “pool” and let him “sink or swim,” it doesn’t look like that’s what’s happening. It looks to me like a slim tether (life saving) rope keeps getting thrown out to help him stay afloat to keep trying to make it. And maybe he will make it, and then again, maybe he will need to be rescued, if you cannot bear to see him go under for long enough to feel the desperation to want to fight himself to find a way to survive himself.

Why should he feel desperate to find a way on his own, if you rescue him over and over? He does not need to find a way – you find it for him - you make the way for him. And now you said “This is the last time!” ~ Do you believe that? I don’t think he believes it. (Actions speak louder than words. You have not previously shown it in your actions, and until you do, it is empty words.)

From my own experience with others of my children (not my Difficult Child), you might consider that your additional financing for him to get him set up there (nothing more fancy than a cheap single bedroom / shared bath in a boarding house) for a month or so, to put him in a place where he could then be of a mindset to think about getting work and not thinking about how to sleep and eat safely. I only suggest this because you definitely do not want him returning home to you ~ and do not want him returning to J. And that “set up” could definitely be that last time, if you stick with it.

I know these words probably sound hard, but these are things I am telling my own self also about my own difficult son, who is much older. (Others also told me similar things in a blunt way! I needed to hear it!) This is just how I’m seeing the picture from your posts. I’m learning here along with everyone else.
Know that I am holding your heartache also, Lil, and do believe there is a way that we are going to be alright. Take care, dear.

 

[Kalahou]

Lil can't NOT answer the calls when he calls whenever. Its a throwback to when her ex called from county jail and she didn't answer. He committed suicide that day.

Hmmm ~ Not meaning to be insensitive here, but how does this relate to your son? Perhaps there is too much attachment yet to this past that might need to be resolved. While it is sad to have this remembrance, don't let it prevent hope and vision for a future independent life for your son.

Is this information presented here as an excuse or rationalization for continuing the possibly enabling attachment with your son, whom I see as ... and believe is ... a young man who could (and already does in some ways) show great promise for a successful normal life, but who appears to need steadfast examples of strong confidence and clear loving (adhered to) boundaries in order to learn the seriousness and value of his worthwhile life, and to make efforts to take the needful steps in his own life for good progress. ~ Bless ~

 

[BusynMember]

Did id occur to you, sweet Lil, that he didnt lose the $80? I would never believe the $80 just disappeared or was stolen. This missing money seems to be a pattern of an excuse our grown kids use to spend the money and then call home saying it was stolen or lost and begging for more. The money is usually spent on drugs or alcohol or both. Like the rest of us, we hope the adult kids are only smoking pot. I thought thats all my daughter took, but after she quit she confessed to heavy use if meth, cocaine and ADHD drugs. I never suspected as she went to school and worked. I guess some people can.

If you feel comfortable setting your son up in a place and paying, because it hurts you toi much not to, then do it. For you. It is not for him becsuse he will only grow more dependent on you, but you need to be able to wake up and look at yourself in the mirror and enjoy the day. We matter.

Do what you need to do for yourself. Just be honest that it is more for you than your son. I think its okay to put this at rest if we can't let go as long as we are clearheaded snd understand that this will not "give him a new start." Lower your expecectations snd do what you can live with. Giving our kids ten new starts doesnt seem to help, whatever the problem is. Although our situations are very different, my ex husband is throwing money for the legal fees at my troubled son for four years now and son is still playing out how he has the worse life on earth. And me?

I enable with my ears because my mother disowned me and I just wont. Lil, his lawyer wanted his phone records. He took one look at them and gave them back. 95 percent of his phone calls were to me, his mommy, at his age. It is what I do so I can look at myself in the mirror, but his lawyer Im sure was stunned. Am I enabling him to find no outside support? I dont know. I just know that I can do this, and when I can't I take breaks, and that my son isnt "right" and I can talk to him, although that is my limit as to what Ill do. But it is time consuming and repetitious and always about HIM and he has no problem swearing at me and hanging up if he doesnt think I am helpful enough. He is very disrespectful. And I still listen to his nonstop complaining. Sadly, it rarely even bothers me anymore. He has been doing it for over twenty years. He has always disrespected everyone he knew and I dont take it personally, although its not endearing.

It is not about him. its about me and the mirror and the fact that he is my son. It helps that he lives far away. it helps a lot. I could never live with him....even the thought of a week visit is unappealing, except for grandson and grandson is just there hslf the time. So I haven't gone in two years. Listening when I feel up to it, is what I do, knowing it will be the same ole same ole. And without respect although he does often thsnk me. There is that.

Do what gives you peace. I know my son won't change at his age and I suspect he has a personality disorder. Your son is young. He has issues, but is still young and could change. I feel he has hope.

Do what you have to do. its very hard to know what is the right ir wrong thing to do. Set certain boundaries and make sure you take care of you. We all need to live with ourselves.

Have a peaceful night.