...and it all falls apart.

[Copabanana]

Sorry Lil, but it looks like you really do not want to detach, you want to keep the strings attached, keep connected, and he does not want to really let go and really does not want to be on his own either.

I will respond to this indirectly by addressing my own situation.

K's comment which I have quoted above applies to me and my own son who is now 1 day short of his 28th birthday, years older than Jabber's and Lil's son.

Initially, when I cut off my son, I wanted to stop the pain and the distress--for me. While my rationale might have been that if I was to cut the cord, he would then have to take responsibility--that was a story line that was really window dressing, so that I could insulate myself from a relationship that was very scary and painful emotionally.

Thus began 4 years plus where my son was marginal and sometimes homeless. I do not believe that he benefited, really. In retrospect, I did not really prosper either. Things only began to get better for us when my son began to mature. I like to think that it was my detaching that did it. And you will find that I still write posts that suggest it was my detaching that changed things. I do not think so, if I tell the truth. What changed was my son, slowly. Had I to do it over again, and were I stronger, I would have stayed in the game, as are Lil and Jabber.

Just over a week ago, he had a job and money enough to get his own place. How did this go so wrong so fast? We should never have paid the train ticket. We should have talked him out of this fiasco.

I am not sure I agree with you. Nobody knows the future. In your son's case, we do not even know the present. Who knows? He may even have been in danger, and had the good sense to get out of Dodge. He may have used the money to pay a debt. I did not have the sense that your son is using hard drugs. For my own son it would have been very easy to go through that quantity of money for marijuana.

The thing is, you do not know exactly what is going on. He tells you what he wants to. That is where the detachment comes in. We have to find a way to live through their trial and error without having a near death experience. We need to be more or less intact after this process--as they struggle to mature. The point of CD as I see it, is helping each other survive, and not be so much in the way of their developing and growing, as they will.

Every single word you wrote, Lil, sounds well thought and reasonable. To me, you are not going too far in either one direction or another. You are there for him and with him without doing it for him. It is the hardest of balancing acts but in my book, laudable, hopeful, loving and strong.

Let us see what he does next. Of course any of our children may have or develop serious drug problems. Their irresponsibility, impulsivity, reactivity, and particularly, immaturity--equally or more, can drive stupid and thoughtless choices.

I for one have to be very careful now with my son electing to come home from the residential treatment center. My son and I were reviewing the conditions under which he can come home. Marijuana/drug use was front and center. I asked him about marijuana and he answered: I cannot buy marijuana because my medical marijuana card expired.

Wrong answer, I replied. You can easily buy it on the street.

He hardly seemed to demonstrate a desire to change, the volition to change. I know that I cannot instill in him the will to change or even to comply. He is just mouthing words.

But I am following your model, Lil. If he wants to be home, I want him near me. As he has grown, I have grown in strength. And the strength I have gained is allowing me to allow him closer to me. I see my strength as giving me resilience and inner resources to be closer to him, giving him more support, acceptance and love, not detaching more.

I do not know when or how I changed, but I really think that you and Jabber were part of it. I saw myself in you. Who I could be if I were stronger--who I needed to be--in relation to my son.

Maybe it is true, that I needed to pull away in order to arrive at this place, and to allow my son to get to where he is. But I see now that it is not all or nothing. The strongest path is one that has flexibility and room for negotiation. That is what I learned from you guys.

We are doing this.

 

[mof]

Thank you.

I too believe in no one formula plan. Waiting for the maturity seems weird and odd...but here we are.

We agreed we will be love and support, because we feel we have been called to do so.

None of us is sure of an outcome...but for our circumstance cutting off a mentally ill immature recovering addict was not an option for us.

Bravo dear friends...we all celebrate the choices we make that keep us in the game of life..

 

[pasajes4]

Lil, I have no answers. I understand the need to make sure he has a roof over his head and the fear and anxiety he creates with his "help" me phone calls. Right now it does not feel right to not help him. This very well may continue until the day you are no longer able to do this for him. I also know the desperate feeling of wanting all of this to stop. It is a very uncomfortable space to be in.

 

[susiestar]

Lil, if your instincts say to help, then help. If they say it is the wrong thing to do, then listen to those instincts and let him figure it out.

It probably would not hurt to google shelters in his area and send the list to him. Tell him you know he will figure it out, but as his phone was dying, he might find the list helpful.

It will likely help him to grow up if he is left to figure this out mostly on his own. The difficulties involved in moving without proper resources are not easy to handle, but he made this choice and chose this path. Have faith that when he is uncomfortable enough, he will figure out a way to afford the comforts he wants. But he must be left to feel the pain and uncomfortable feelings on his own so that he can learn to figure out the solution to overcome his difficulties.

My brother used to take off on summer breaks with very little money. He would load the dog and some tools in the car and take off to some strange job in another state. The first time he went to plant trees in some area that loggers had cut most of the trees down. Then after he got out of the army and finished his degree he drove to Idaho and eventually got jobs with the forest service and on the off season he worked with a wilderness outfitter. He was quite uncomfortable at times, but he grew up.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Lil...the issue here is drugs, and I'm not talking weed. He's using something stronger if he went through that much money that quickly.

Seriously doubt this GN. First, with my job I know the signs. Second, I can easily see him buying a large amount of pot and sitting in his motel room, smoking it all. In the mean time, he is ordering pizza's, taking taxi's to fast food drive thru's, and tipping the taxi driver and pizza guy WAY too much. You know, like giving the pizza guy a 20 for a 10 dollar pizza and saying keep the change not realizing, or caring because of the pot induced euphoria, exactly how much of his money he was actually spending.

Had I to do it over again, and were I stronger, I would have stayed in the game, as are Lil and Jabber.

Honestly Copa, my attitude is let the phone ring and let him sort it out. He's entirely to lazy to be successful at the homeless life style. What most people don't realize is how much work it truly takes to live like that. But he wont starve. He wont be without some form of a bed. He may not be in a good situation, but he will be ok. He will rather quickly get tired of it and either take advantage of the shelter with programs or beg to come home. As I have no intention of letting him come home any time soon, that leaves the shelter and its programs.

The motel room last night? That was for Lil. I looked over at her and said "You know my opinion on this. Will you be able to sleep tonight if we don't do this?" She said no and so we got him the room....For HER. IF he goes to Denver, I will consider the possibility of paying for one month in the youth hostel. Maybe. That will be for Lil though, NOT for him. We will burn that bridge when we come to it.

 

[Lil]

Sorry Lil, but it looks like you really do not want to detach, you want to keep the strings attached, keep connected.

I can't say I agree with this. I absolutely want to him to grow up. I WANT him to be his own man - the man I raised him to be. I WANT him to use his damn brain, the ONE thing he apparently got from me, instead of just NOT THINKING. I DO, however, want to keep connected, of course. Not with apron strings, but with loving emotions.

What one of us really doesn't want to have a loving bond with their children?

To me, he seems still soooo young yet

VERY immature. No doubt.

What experience does he have in a strange place to make a new life?

None, nada, zilch. Nor did he pay any attention when I mentioned, "Craigslist has people with room shares for $200/mo." or "There is a shelter, but it may be full, you should check right away." or "Be frugal. VERY frugal. You can do this but you have to watch the money." or "Denver is a huge city and more expensive, but the youth hostel is about $35 a night and you'd meet other people your age."

What did he do before / where did he go when he was previously out of your house?

He was never really alone. He was in a shelter for a time, and J was there too. He was with a girlfriend or relatives or friends. So he's never been really on his own.

Not meaning to be insensitive here, but how does this relate to your son?

My ex was his biological father. I am quite aware that this is almost a phobia for me. But having lost both my parents with no ability to say goodbye, and then having him suicide after I refused his collect call, I have a very deep seated fear that if I don't answer the phone, at least send a text, I will never see him again. It will be my one and only last chance and I will have blown it.

I understand it is irrational, but I have not been able to overcome it.

Did id occur to you, sweet Lil, that he didnt lose the $80?

Of course it did. Especially since he'd already asked earlier in the day for me to pay for another night. But he was pretty desperate and frankly, the $55 was a small price to pay for a night's sleep.

If he does it again tonight, I will tell him to sleep under a bridge. The more I think about him running thru the money so quickly the angrier I get. I suspect he spend a good chunk - at least a couple hundred - on weed. If he chose that over shelter, his choice. I'm equally sure he ordered pizza and ate fast food over and over, rather than buying bread and peanut butter and chips and other things that don't need cooking. So now he's broke. He can't be the only homeless person in that city. He'll figure it out.

Wow, it's SO EASY to say that in the daytime when he's not calling and sobbing on the phone.

 

[Jabberwockey]

but the youth hostel is about $35 a night

I will consider the possibility of paying for one month in the youth hostel.

Ok, I take that back! LOL! I was thinking of the room share on Craigslist.

 

[Lil]

My brother used to take off on summer breaks with very little money. He would load the dog and some tools in the car and take off to some strange job in another state. The first time he went to plant trees in some area that loggers had cut most of the trees down. Then after he got out of the army and finished his degree he drove to Idaho and eventually got jobs with the forest service and on the off season he worked with a wilderness outfitter. He was quite uncomfortable at times, but he grew up.

You've no idea how fantastic that sounds. I'd love that. Heck, I'd love it if he just had a car - he could sleep in that, and I'd let him. He wouldn't get any hotels out of me if there was a car.

The motel room last night? That was for Lil. I looked over at her and said "You know my opinion on this. Will you be able to sleep tonight if we don't do this?" She said no and so we got him the room....For HER. IF he goes to Denver, I will consider the possibility of paying for one month in the youth hostel. Maybe. That will be for Lil though, NOT for him. We will burn that bridge when we come to it.

I've never even considered a month! I don't know what, if anything, the hostel would charge for a month. I do know there is a rescue mission there with 200 beds in good weather and 315 in bad. There are other homeless shelters and programs too. Of course, there are over 1500 homeless people in that city, so who knows. Room shares cost as much as $400 a WEEK in Denver - but usually run closer to $400 a month. It's an expensive place to live. Where he is, there are room shares for $200 a month, but he didn't look into them so ...

I don't know what to think about this. I just really thought we'd have more time than 4 days to hit this point.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I've never even considered a month!

Sorry, I thought it was the $200 a month for room share in Denver. And I said consider. The consider was more for you but as you wont consider it then don't worry about it. I expected this to happen, but not nearly this fast.

 

[AppleCori]

Sorry it seems to be turning into such a fiasco.

Maybe it is the start of something better? We can only hope.

Maybe he will realize that he needs to do something with his life like counseling or job training or at least a little planning....

Maybe future help will come with strings, like getting into one of those youth training programs?

I can't say much--our D C came asking for money last night. Hasn't been working much and won't get paid till Friday. I gave him $50 from my daughter's piggy bank (didn't want to go find an ATM). He is suppose to pay it back on Friday. We will see. Funny, he hasn't asked for money in a couple of years.

Apple

 

[Lil]

Soooo....I am quite sure of where he spent his money. He doesn't realize I know how to find any public posts he puts on Facebook. Yesterday he was trying to sell some weed for $ for a hotel. Today he posted a photo of a large amount and a bong I know he didn't own when he left here, saying he was walking up the highway trying to get to Denver and he'd trade it for a ride. WTH? A freaking bus ticket is like $35.

Yes, I will let him be out in the cold tonight.

 

[RN0441]

My son used to post pictures of pills on Facebook and I'd find out from family members. I would be hysterical and SO ANGRY!!

So there you have it. Sometimes the school of hard knocks is the best teacher!

 

[Jabberwockey]

Today he posted a photo of a large amount and a bong I know he didn't own when he left here, saying he was walking up the highway trying to get to Denver and he'd trade it for a ride. WTH? A freaking bus ticket is like $35.

Well, now we know where a large portion of his money went. He probably spent between $100 and $150 for the bong.

 

[RN0441]

When you're mad it's all easier!

 

[Lil]

When you're mad it's all easier!

Definitely. In response to my text to check his email - I sent him a list of homeless shelters - he called and told me he had a ride to another city - still not Denver - and that he planned on checking out the "campground" there. I suspect there's a tent city, and he was going to try to hit up a FB friend there. So apparently free weed will get you a ride. I'm reminded of the old bumper sticker - "Gas, Grass or A**, no one rides for free."

I told him good luck and I loved him and otherwise kept my mouth shut. I like the "no contact" rule right now. I know I'll answer the phone, but that doesn't force me to call him.

So...folks I'm going to back off here for a while and quit giving you a play by play. I think I need to just shut down for a bit.

 

[Copabanana]

I know we cannot micro manage this for them but in my fantasy life I can't stop thinking about the oil fields in North Dakota or Vegas. I know he is several states away but there is WORK. ADVENTURE. But that is me. So much better than stupid marijuana.

Yesterday he was trying to sell some weed for $ for a hotel. Today he posted a photo of a large amount and a bong

What an idiot. No offense, Lil.

I would actually be reassured. Why? Because knowing what he did (and how he deceived and manipulated you, your love and your good faith, indirectly) you can take steps to protect yourself.

I told him good luck and I loved him and otherwise kept my mouth shut. I like the "no contact" rule right now. I know I'll answer the phone, but that doesn't force me to call him.

The answering the phone (only) is what I began to do 1 year ago. Remember when I said, OH, NO for about 2 months and never, ever called. (Actually that was when he could not tolerate the sound of my voice--so it was actually quite easy not to talk because every time I did he would hang up on me!)

Good job, Lil. Now is the time to relax, nest at home, crochet or knit and watch TV with Jabber. Or read cozy mystery novels like I do.

You are doing so great.

PS What a jerk! (You know that is written with great affection.)

 

[Lil]

crochet or knit

Funny you should say that. I learned to knit this weekend - or started learning - I'm working on my first hat.

Thanks Copa.

 

[Copabanana]

Thanks Copa.

Oh Lil. You are such a sweetheart. I wish I could some day meet you. You are such a great Mom and such a kind and thoughtful woman.

I have not knit much for about 8 years or so. Was only a beginner. Life has been too hectic to do even more than think about it. I found it tremendously relaxing.

Take care, Lil.

 

[GoingNorth]

I haven't knit much since my husband died. i was an expert knitter. My grandmother, who was born in Lithuania, taught me to knit when I was a small child. In fact, I don't really remember learning to knit, but because I learned knitting as a "folkway", I knit, to quote a friend from the Army days, "weird", including being able to carry yarn in both hands. Apparently, the whole way i hold the needles, yarn, and manipulate them is "off", so when I used to go to knitting club, or into a knitting class, I'd draw a crowd when I started knitting.

For you beginners (and for me, too) I highly recommend the various books by Elizabeth Zimmerman, especially 'Knitting Without Tears" and "Knitting in the Round" (for sweaters and such). I learned quite a bit from them, too. Both are available in oversized paperback from Amazon, and I think in hardcover as well.

 

[Copabanana]

I highly recommend the various books by Elizabeth Zimmerman, especially 'Knitting Without Tears" and "Knitting in the Round"

Thank you going. I will look for these books. I have a mini library on knitting, to add these two.