Slowly Breaking Me Down
- Thread starter Ca Mom Losing Hope
- Start date
Childofmine
one day at a time
I used to. I used to walk around my house, looking at all of the baby pictures of easy child and difficult child, and I would stand there and cry about difficult child. My baby. My baby. It is just in the past six months that I have stopped doing this and now I truly do not see him as a baby anymore but as a man. I do see that now. It took a lot of time.
But we have to learn this. I would venture to say that most women in the U.S. must learn this from the ground up. Our culture pushes us to be "unselfish, giving, care-taking, good mommies, putting ourselves last, everybody else first." Our very natures are in sync with this mind-set. We are givers at heart. We are fixers. We are caretakers. We can be completely swallowed up by this very real natural and biological nature of ourselves if we aren't real careful.
From age 6, as the oldest daughter and child, I began helping my mother with the three younger ones, one disabled. I was the "strong oldest child." I had to grow up way way too fast and be too responsible for too long. I lost my childhood. I was never carefree. I was always the super-responsible one.
I am just now learning that I can come first. In fact, if I don't, I am of no use. We hear those words, but we don't get them until we are forced to get them, many of us.
I am so grateful that I am today, valuing myself more than I ever have in my life. I do count. We do count.
This must happen if we are to quit enabling, start detaching with love and accept what is. Taking care of ourselves has to come first because THAT will become our focus. That will fill the gap when we stop enabling and caretaking and fixing and managing and controlling other people. Something has to take the place of all of that, and taking care of ourselves is that thing that will take the place of it. And then give us that strong foundation to move on to do the even harder work of detachment and then of acceptance.
Without that foundation, we cannot do it. It is just too hard.
Ca Mom Losing Hope
Member
There is so much good advice on these posts that I will be reading them over and over again to keep the fear and grief at bay. I relate to this quote COM posted.
So much fear and grief and the chaos is making me crazy. I love the moments when I know he is content and won't be calling or texting, but i do fear the next shoe that will drop. Always that feeling of what is going to happen next.
I haven't posted since Wednesday when i took Echo's advice and text him back just as was stated
I didn't hear back from him and after work I had a very well deserved hair appointment to cover my natural "highlights". I was just getting ready to leave the salon and my phone rang and it was him. I chose to ignore and didn't answer and of course he kept calling. Now when I got in my truck the phone rang again. When I am in my truck it rings through the stereo. I have a mic in the car, and after market stereo my husband put in so that I wouldn't answer the phone while driving. I wasn't going to answer but for some reason it automatically answered and there I was talking to my difficult child after a very relaxing appointment. It started off well with, hey how you doing, I had hope at this moment. Maybe he was just calling to say hi. After a few words I could hear he had been drinking (MWM is right, it is usually alcohol or drugs) and these calls never go well when he is drinking. After a few moments he started to tell me that he and his father want to buy 5 acres off of my ex mother in law and father in law and start a pig farm. They live in the country and are ex pig farmers so this isn't completely out of the blue. I said that sounds like a good plan, thinking to myself, now how are you going to do that. He then said they needed an investor and would i co-sign for a quarter million dollar loan.:
: I of course said that I wasn't even sure I could get a loan like that, I know I should of lead with NO WAY, but I didn't want to have the argument. He continued to say yes you could, you are the only one that could. I talked through the option of a business loans with him and that his dad could get a loan, or mother in law and father in law could but he would hear nothing of it and had a deflection for each of them. Then I got braver and just said no. It escalated. He said why do i treat him like **** and how could I treat my son like that. Why do I keep treating him like ****. He began yelling and belittling me so I hit the red button on my stereo and turned off my phone so it wouldn't ring again. I have rule now that I started after coming here when he was harassing us with the 3am phone calls. If he can't be polite I will hang up immediately and block his number through my wireless carrier for 48 hour. So I did and the calls stopped. He left a few messages before that that only solidified my actions. I had 36 hours of peace, it was such a nice evening Wed and Thurs night knowing my phone wasn't going to ring and there wouldn't be any text messages. Well he always finds a way. He called me today during work through Google phone or something that comes through as an unknown number. He denied he told me to F off, and that he yelled at all or was any way not polite. In fact he said I yelled but I had kept calm. We argued, because I never know what to say when he gets this way. Eventually I was yelling and told him if he put as much energy into his life as he does into being angry at me he would be in a better place. He asked me why I cut him off, as though I hadn't just explained it 10 times in this 10 minute call, so my last words were, I haven't cut you off, cutting you off will be what happens in august when I no longer pay your rent and bills. I hung up. So frustrated and angry. He called back, calmer this time to ask about the food again. I said, well you will figure something out, I think he thought I said we will figure something out because he said "cool cool" and then proceeds to tell me that he didn't tell me off and that he had been recording our calls, did I want to hear it? I said yes and he hung up.
I hate it when he gets under my skin like that. Like I have said before, vinegar and water.
So it has now been 48 hours since the call in the truck on my way home. Even though he called today he didn't cuss me out but he wasn't very polite either. Debating if I should unblock the number. Since he calls with that unknown number, it only stops the texts but actually those are the water board torture tool so that actually does still make it better. It is easier to ignore a call than it is to ignore a text for some reason.
I just wish he would call to tell me he has a plan, a plan that is feasible or that he is going to get help or call that school we told him about in his area, or even that this time, he has an interview and is going to go to it. He is going to wait it out until I have to pull that plug in August and I think he is reveling in the thought of the pain it will put me through rather than thinking about the fact he will be out without any resources. I am sure he thinks I will give in before then. I am sure he thinks I wont do it. So that is why this time, with the food, I am not going to call and have groceries delivered, or order him a pizza. I have to show him that I don't give in anymore. Right?
Besides, how did he buy the alcohol????
I keep this very close:
God give me strength to accept the things I cannot change
The Courage to change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference
I will reread detachment tonight too. It is something that needs reading over an over again
I am going to spend the time this evening catching up on the posts and reading through your stories for the strength. Courage I will find in the arms of my husband. Wisdom, well we all already have that. We all know what is right and what we need to do. It is the first two where we falter and need to build so that we can use the wisdom we already have.
CA Mom
So much fear and grief and the chaos is making me crazy. I love the moments when I know he is content and won't be calling or texting, but i do fear the next shoe that will drop. Always that feeling of what is going to happen next.
I haven't posted since Wednesday when i took Echo's advice and text him back just as was stated
I didn't hear back from him and after work I had a very well deserved hair appointment to cover my natural "highlights". I was just getting ready to leave the salon and my phone rang and it was him. I chose to ignore and didn't answer and of course he kept calling. Now when I got in my truck the phone rang again. When I am in my truck it rings through the stereo. I have a mic in the car, and after market stereo my husband put in so that I wouldn't answer the phone while driving. I wasn't going to answer but for some reason it automatically answered and there I was talking to my difficult child after a very relaxing appointment. It started off well with, hey how you doing, I had hope at this moment. Maybe he was just calling to say hi. After a few words I could hear he had been drinking (MWM is right, it is usually alcohol or drugs) and these calls never go well when he is drinking. After a few moments he started to tell me that he and his father want to buy 5 acres off of my ex mother in law and father in law and start a pig farm. They live in the country and are ex pig farmers so this isn't completely out of the blue. I said that sounds like a good plan, thinking to myself, now how are you going to do that. He then said they needed an investor and would i co-sign for a quarter million dollar loan.:
: I of course said that I wasn't even sure I could get a loan like that, I know I should of lead with NO WAY, but I didn't want to have the argument. He continued to say yes you could, you are the only one that could. I talked through the option of a business loans with him and that his dad could get a loan, or mother in law and father in law could but he would hear nothing of it and had a deflection for each of them. Then I got braver and just said no. It escalated. He said why do i treat him like **** and how could I treat my son like that. Why do I keep treating him like ****. He began yelling and belittling me so I hit the red button on my stereo and turned off my phone so it wouldn't ring again. I have rule now that I started after coming here when he was harassing us with the 3am phone calls. If he can't be polite I will hang up immediately and block his number through my wireless carrier for 48 hour. So I did and the calls stopped. He left a few messages before that that only solidified my actions. I had 36 hours of peace, it was such a nice evening Wed and Thurs night knowing my phone wasn't going to ring and there wouldn't be any text messages. Well he always finds a way. He called me today during work through Google phone or something that comes through as an unknown number. He denied he told me to F off, and that he yelled at all or was any way not polite. In fact he said I yelled but I had kept calm. We argued, because I never know what to say when he gets this way. Eventually I was yelling and told him if he put as much energy into his life as he does into being angry at me he would be in a better place. He asked me why I cut him off, as though I hadn't just explained it 10 times in this 10 minute call, so my last words were, I haven't cut you off, cutting you off will be what happens in august when I no longer pay your rent and bills. I hung up. So frustrated and angry. He called back, calmer this time to ask about the food again. I said, well you will figure something out, I think he thought I said we will figure something out because he said "cool cool" and then proceeds to tell me that he didn't tell me off and that he had been recording our calls, did I want to hear it? I said yes and he hung up. I hate it when he gets under my skin like that. Like I have said before, vinegar and water.
So it has now been 48 hours since the call in the truck on my way home. Even though he called today he didn't cuss me out but he wasn't very polite either. Debating if I should unblock the number. Since he calls with that unknown number, it only stops the texts but actually those are the water board torture tool so that actually does still make it better. It is easier to ignore a call than it is to ignore a text for some reason.
I just wish he would call to tell me he has a plan, a plan that is feasible or that he is going to get help or call that school we told him about in his area, or even that this time, he has an interview and is going to go to it. He is going to wait it out until I have to pull that plug in August and I think he is reveling in the thought of the pain it will put me through rather than thinking about the fact he will be out without any resources. I am sure he thinks I will give in before then. I am sure he thinks I wont do it. So that is why this time, with the food, I am not going to call and have groceries delivered, or order him a pizza. I have to show him that I don't give in anymore. Right?
Besides, how did he buy the alcohol????I keep this very close:
God give me strength to accept the things I cannot change
The Courage to change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference
I will reread detachment tonight too. It is something that needs reading over an over again
I am going to spend the time this evening catching up on the posts and reading through your stories for the strength. Courage I will find in the arms of my husband. Wisdom, well we all already have that. We all know what is right and what we need to do. It is the first two where we falter and need to build so that we can use the wisdom we already have.
CA Mom
Childofmine
one day at a time
I just wish he would call to tell me he has a plan, a plan that is feasible or that he is going to get help or call that school we told him about in his area, or even that this time, he has an interview and is going to go to it. He is going to wait it out until I have to pull that plug in August and I think he is reveling in the thought of the pain it will put me through rather than thinking about the fact he will be out without any resources. I am sure he thinks I will give in before then. I am sure he thinks I wont do it. So that is why this time, with the food, I am not going to call and have groceries delivered, or order him a pizza. I have to show him that I don't give in anymore. Right?
You are in the midst of changing yourself, CA. It is a transitional place that you are in, and it takes very hard work. You are ready to do the work, I can hear and see that in your writing.
You are filling your mind with new ways of thinking. The more you do that, the more you use the tools of recovery, whatever those are for you---multiple things that fit different times and situations---the better you will become. The healthier you will become.
You are setting boundaries with your phone. That is huge.
Make yourself a "cheat sheet" that gives you all kinds of the following: key quotes, reminders, things to say or write to difficult child, the Serenity Prayer, etc. Keep it to one sheet of paper. Make multiple copies and put one in your purse, one on the bathroom mirror, one in the car taped to the dashboard, one on the refrigerator.
These thoughts and ideas become your mantra. The more you read and repeat and remind yourself of these new truths, the more they will literally and actually create new neural pathways in your brain. Soon this will be your new reality.
It's like: we are what we eat.
We are what we think.
Read, write, etc. Buy yourself flowers, take a walk, take a nap, take a break. Do nice things, small things and big things for yourself. Laugh. Read a joke (I can't tell jokes for the life of me, but I can laugh at a joke!).
This is creating the new ways of doing and thinking....and ultimately of being...that will allow us to experience joy, peace, serenity and contentment REGARDLESS of what difficult child says or does, does not say or does not do.
I spent years waiting to hear that my difficult child had a plan. Some sort of plan. Any kind of plan. Something! Anything! Please.
Reality: He tells me what I want to hear.
I have had to teach myself and teach him little by little, month by month, year by year that finally, today, I mean what I say. Even if it kills me, I will not go to the store and buy a bag of food and hand it to him. I will take him one bottle of water and one energy bar that I already have here. That is what I did last time. I so wanted to go and buy him all kinds of things---but what message does that send? He, who eats three free meals a day on weekdays at shelters and two on the weekends, and also has food stamps. giving him a bag of food is saying, I'm still in the game with you. I'm still doing and gonna do things for you. Maybe next time I won't even take the energy bar and bottle of water.
It is so way past time, CA, for my difficult child, who is nearly 25 years old, to FIGURE. IT. OUT.
If you make a decision NOT to do something and you tell him that, try with all of your might and God's might behind you, to keep that decision. If you don't, you are setting yourself and him back.
Given that, you can change your mind at any time with new information, CA. That is always your prerogative as an adult.
It's hard to hold both of those things constant, but you can do it, with a lot of work.
Work is what recovery takes. Daily work. Time spent. If we work it, it works. If we don't work it, we do the same things we have always done.
Hugs and hope and blessings and prayers to you this day! You are making remarkable progress, CA. I see it and I hear it. Keep the faith. Keep talking to us. We are here for you and for each other.
CA Mom, you're doing well with waiting. And, to give you a little perspective, YOU have all the power, NOT your difficult child. You can make a plan and carry it through. As soon as your son gets in ANY way disrespectful of you, it is imperative that you end the call. YOU can make it more then 48 hours. Perhaps even one phone call per week, or a system which works for you. We have to retrain our kids out of the dependency on us.
The truth is, yes, he is likely to wait until you pull the plug in August. Our difficult child's perceive themselves as having remarkable power to persuade others to give them what they want and usually they simply consider your threats absurd. You wouldn't allow him to starve, he can't even imagine it. And, like the rest of us parents, when you do actually pull the plug, get ready for the onslaught of a tirade the likes of which you haven't seen. A 22 year old man who continues to call his Mom over and over and over again for her to have a pizza sent, or buy him groceries, or co-sign a loan is ridiculous. You have to begin to see the ridiculousness of it all.
Something that helped me when I began this journey was a therapist told us that the difference between loving kindness and enabling is you feel good with loving kindness and you feel angry and resentful when you enable. That helped me to begin to see the difference because, truthfully, at that time, all I felt was anger and resentment. I had already over given to such a huge degree that I had no self left, I had given everything away.
Since you have a plan in motion for your release from your son's financial responsibilities, I believe the best use of your time will be to work on you and how you can systematically let go. You've already begun by not reacting to every request your son has. Refraining is a term I just learned which is to WAIT and not respond. To be silent A LOT. In the waiting, as you make that happen, your son will begin to have choices and the time to make them without it always being about calling Mom to figure everything out. Keep putting the ball back in to his court, where it belongs.
Do not engage with crazy people because you too become crazy.
Take the focus you've had on your son and put it on you. Figure out what exactly you are willing to do and what you are NOT willing to do. Be honest with yourself about it, not what you think you SHOULD do, but what you truly want to do. Leave all the shoulds out of it. Once our kids are adults there are no more shoulds. Setting boundaries around his behavior will empower you and give him the time to figure things out on his own. Or not. He may not make one move towards his own autonomy but you can make many, many moves towards yours.
I hope you are getting some kind of support. It is very hard to do this on our own. Hang in there. Keep posting, it helps to clarify where we are and get feedback from others who've been in your shoes.
The truth is, yes, he is likely to wait until you pull the plug in August. Our difficult child's perceive themselves as having remarkable power to persuade others to give them what they want and usually they simply consider your threats absurd. You wouldn't allow him to starve, he can't even imagine it. And, like the rest of us parents, when you do actually pull the plug, get ready for the onslaught of a tirade the likes of which you haven't seen. A 22 year old man who continues to call his Mom over and over and over again for her to have a pizza sent, or buy him groceries, or co-sign a loan is ridiculous. You have to begin to see the ridiculousness of it all.
Something that helped me when I began this journey was a therapist told us that the difference between loving kindness and enabling is you feel good with loving kindness and you feel angry and resentful when you enable. That helped me to begin to see the difference because, truthfully, at that time, all I felt was anger and resentment. I had already over given to such a huge degree that I had no self left, I had given everything away.
Since you have a plan in motion for your release from your son's financial responsibilities, I believe the best use of your time will be to work on you and how you can systematically let go. You've already begun by not reacting to every request your son has. Refraining is a term I just learned which is to WAIT and not respond. To be silent A LOT. In the waiting, as you make that happen, your son will begin to have choices and the time to make them without it always being about calling Mom to figure everything out. Keep putting the ball back in to his court, where it belongs.
Do not engage with crazy people because you too become crazy.
Take the focus you've had on your son and put it on you. Figure out what exactly you are willing to do and what you are NOT willing to do. Be honest with yourself about it, not what you think you SHOULD do, but what you truly want to do. Leave all the shoulds out of it. Once our kids are adults there are no more shoulds. Setting boundaries around his behavior will empower you and give him the time to figure things out on his own. Or not. He may not make one move towards his own autonomy but you can make many, many moves towards yours.
I hope you are getting some kind of support. It is very hard to do this on our own. Hang in there. Keep posting, it helps to clarify where we are and get feedback from others who've been in your shoes.
SeekingStrength
Well-Known Member
CA Mom,
What COM said above is very obvious in your posts of late. I was about to say something similar, then saw COM had already pointed it out. You are definitely getting stronger.
I was relating a little of your story to husband this afternoon. husband and I don't discuss our gfg33 and all that goes with him nearly as much these days, but from time to time we talk about how much better we are doing. You are DEFINITELY getting stronger....and if I dare say it, wiser. We pray for gfg33 daily and certainly hope he is in a better place--but nothing more we can do about that. difficult child would certainly say $$ would help him, but money never helped before.
In December and January I was right where you were when you started posting here. So much angst. The thought of blocking his number, walking away??? How could husband and I even consider such things? We had to be there for difficult child as long as we are on this earth. He is our son; we had no choice. Yes, he was messed up and all the more reason we could not detach. He needed us.
And, difficult child figured that way too. At least, he certainly acted like it. He demanded and demanded and got hateful, then more hateful, when we refused. Said terrible things that no child, no matter how old, should say to a parent.
And, then the lightbulb came on. Well, it just flickered for a week or so before it got serious wattage, lol.
No, we do NOT have to put up with that abuse and further more, we SHOULD not. And, yes, the hateful texts and emails escalated once we got serious. difficult child certainly thought husband and I could not bear not knowing how he is, what he is doing, could not stop worrying about whether he has a bed and food to eat. My guess is that, by now, he is starting to catch on that we can bear it. Granted, I doubt gfg33 thinks he caused it; in his mind, we are just awful parents.
As I have said before, this was not the first time he has been a jerk. So, husband and I can (and do) look back and wonder What the heck took us so long to catch on to such a simple concept? Somebody treats you badly over and over? Step out of the ring. Doesn't make any difference if it is a family member. Make new guidelines that demand respect. They won't abide by them? Their choice.
You will gain more and more peace and perspective. You are certainly getting there and I am happy for you.....because gee whiz, it sure is a better life.
Hello CA Mom and welcome. You have gotten wonderful advice from many wise women. I, too, have been through what you are going through with all of the same fears and guilt. I started seeing a therapist about a year ago to help me set boundaries and it has helped me so much.
Some of this things that she told me are so very true:
~Kathy
Some of this things that she told me are so very true:
- The suicide attempts are a way that your difficult child is trying to manipulate you and keep you engaged. It is emotional blackmail. You have to stop letting them get to you as hard as that is to do. My difficult child recently did take an overdose of pills and then immediately called for help. She didn't want to die . . . just wanted to make us become involved again as we had cut her off of all financial help as she was drinking and using again. She ended up in a psychiatric ward for a week.
- The more you set boundaries the harder he will push back against them. You have to stay strong. My therapist compared it to dog training when you try to change a behavior. They become more and more agitated and keep trying to get you to do what they want until they finally realize that you won't give in. It is called an extinction burst.
- You difficult child will continue to manipulate you as long as he is able to do it. You are the only one that can make it stop.
- You are working much harder to fix your difficult child's life than he is.
~Kathy
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Childofmine
one day at a time
When this is happening, this is a big signal to us that something is way, way out of whack. I have been told many times that when I'm more upset than difficult child is about his life, I'm enabling and I'm too engaged. The "hooks" are still way deep inside me. When this happens, I try hard to use my tool of Wait. Wait. Don't do anything. Let time pass. During my waiting time, I work on myself more, reading, writing, more Al-Anon meetings, etc.
This is so so true and it takes a very long time to see any fruit here. I stopped enabling many months ago. I have set firmer and firmer boundaries. difficult child has ramped up. It would be easy to get discouraged and go back to old behaviors. But what keeps me moving forward is the FACT that I am much happier, more serene, more joyful, more contented. My life is way better even while his is way worse, at least on the surface.
I am grappling with the idea that his life is just what he wants it to be.
We must stop all of our reacting. And turn reacting to responding. Waiting is another key way to do that.
Great info, Kathy! Sounds like you have a very wise therapist.
One more thing . . . if the texts are causing you pain . . . stop them. If you have a smart phone, you can set your phone to block texts from your difficult child. I have both the phone number and texts blocked from my difficult child. I told her that I would talk to her once a week (another suggestion of my therapist) and that was it. It is so much more peaceful now when I don't have to tense up every time my phone rings or I get a text.
Now I only get upset once a week.
Now I only get upset once a week.
Ca Mom Losing Hope
Member
Yes great information Kathy. I really like your points you laid out. I do block him from my phone through my carrier when he starts yelling and cussing at me but I do always have that sinking feeling when he isn't blocked. The peacefulness is nice when he is blocked so I have been considering the once a week communication too. Unfortunately he has figured out how to get around the block for calling me. He uses Google voice and the number comes in as unknown. I don't answer but he leaves a message. The one this morning said his dog needs flea drops, he is wondering if he is getting some food to get him by until his stamps come in and he said he had a job on Friday to cut some wood. The food is always the one that gets me weak. There is a lady that does delivery in the area. I have used her twice before too send food. I give her a list and she buys the food, and I pay her through pay pal. Two steps forward one step back. Wondering if this is ok if it makes me feel better. His stamps will come in on the 7th. If he shopped right, he would have food for the month.
Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app
Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app
My difficult child has been creative trying to get around the blocks, also. She has changed her number to our area code but I have now blocked that, also. She tried using other peoples phones so I blocked the area code where she is living. She still managed to get through from time to time and left voice messages which I deleted without listening to. She has finally gotten the message and stopped calling me.
However, she now calls husband who is now the one that she is trying to manipulate. Luckily, she is living in a halfway house with a very astute house manager who calls her on her on her shenanigans and has asked us to put money only in difficult child's account and let her dole it out for things that difficult child really needs. She is going to work with difficult child on budgeting to make her money last through the week. She said to direct difficult child back to her every time she asks for something. She said she has no problem with saying no. Her IOP therapist is also working on life skills with her with the goal of weaning her off of us and towards total independent functioning.
Have you checked to see if there are food banks in the area? If so, point him towards those. However, as my therapist said, if he is hungry for a few days it won't kill him and it will make him more careful about how he uses his food stamps next time. After all, if you always supplement him when he runs out, why would he worry about staying in a budget? You are rewarding him for incompetence and lack of planning.
As far as his dog needing flea drops . . . I don't think I have the words for that. If he can't take care of himself, he should not have a dog. There is no way that he can be a responsible pet owner.
Hang in there. Staying strong is hard and you will need a lot of support. Keep posting and seek out a support group or a therapist to help you.
We understand and want to help.
~Kathy
However, she now calls husband who is now the one that she is trying to manipulate. Luckily, she is living in a halfway house with a very astute house manager who calls her on her on her shenanigans and has asked us to put money only in difficult child's account and let her dole it out for things that difficult child really needs. She is going to work with difficult child on budgeting to make her money last through the week. She said to direct difficult child back to her every time she asks for something. She said she has no problem with saying no. Her IOP therapist is also working on life skills with her with the goal of weaning her off of us and towards total independent functioning.
Have you checked to see if there are food banks in the area? If so, point him towards those. However, as my therapist said, if he is hungry for a few days it won't kill him and it will make him more careful about how he uses his food stamps next time. After all, if you always supplement him when he runs out, why would he worry about staying in a budget? You are rewarding him for incompetence and lack of planning.
As far as his dog needing flea drops . . . I don't think I have the words for that. If he can't take care of himself, he should not have a dog. There is no way that he can be a responsible pet owner.
Hang in there. Staying strong is hard and you will need a lot of support. Keep posting and seek out a support group or a therapist to help you.
We understand and want to help.
~Kathy
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Ca Mom Losing Hope
Member
Ok I agree logically with both of you. I have sent food bank information multiple times and one that I know of he actually went. My response via text was exactly that, to start looking at the food banks. Oh and glad he is finding work, of course it isn't until Friday so my expectations are low.
Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app
of course it isn't until Friday so my expectations are low. Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app
Childofmine
one day at a time
The "I'm hungry" and the "I'm going to kill myself" are usually the last big manipulations that continue. My difficult child pitched both of those at me again this last go-round.
They do it because it works.
When it stops working, they will finally stop doing it.
I suggest that we do not react or respond to the I'm hungry one. We offer no response whatsoever.
We call the police on the I'm going to kill myself one.
I'm talking to myself first here, obviously. We all should do what works for us.
They do it because it works.
When it stops working, they will finally stop doing it.
I suggest that we do not react or respond to the I'm hungry one. We offer no response whatsoever.
We call the police on the I'm going to kill myself one.
I'm talking to myself first here, obviously. We all should do what works for us.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
You learn that your child is not you and you are not your child. Why should you not love and honor yourself because somebody else is making poor choices? That has nothing to do with you. It is on his shoulders as he is an adult now. You are a good person, deserving of self-love and care. Now your son...as an adult, he makes his own seperate decisions that reflect on HIM, not YOU. If they are bad decisions he will suffer for them in natural consequences, then you have mainly two choices:
1. You have the option of living your life through whatever happens to your adult child thus going down the hole with him if he chooses to do so. This usually involves not paying attention to your other loved ones who deserve you more than him, but difficult children take up all our oxygen if we choose to overindulge in them. Since you have no control over an adult child, his emotions will be yours. If he is doing drugs, in jail due to his bad decisions, living on the streets because of his refusal to conform even enough to get by in society, you can stay in bed all day every day and cry. Or you can go about life, but never really enjoy it because your adult child is doing poorly. Many people do this. It is a decision they make. Some parents think they can not have a good life if their child is struggling, even though the child is now an adult and it is due to the adult child's poor choices.
2. You have the option of maybe going to twelve step meetings or a private therapist or both and learn how to detach from your adult child's drama with caring, but with your eye on building a happy life of your own....realizing that your other loved ones and friends would like your happiness and company and that living one day at a time is more helpful to you than angsting over something you have no control over. Many of us have built good, fulfilling lives this way as we focus on ourselves and our loved ones who are able to have healthy relationships with us. As we detach, we learn to listen without the extreme emotion we once had. We learn when it is too much to talk to a difficult child and we set boundaries that are good for us. We start to laugh again.
The choices are very personal ones. Some people are 80 years old and their 60 year old alcoholic son who abuses them and never worked and dumped his wife and dodged child support and spent time in jail is STILL living with that poor eighty year old woman and maybe even shoving her around. But that was the way she decided to live her life.
Most of us here have chosen to move on and enjoy our lives in spite of having dysfunctional adult children. You have to make your own decision though. If you'd like to try to move on, the first thing I'd do is buy the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beatty and then I'd sit in on an Al-Anon or Nar-Anon meeting. There are great resources there for learning how to move on when a loved one is in a bad place. Helped lots of us tons. Therapy too.
1. You have the option of living your life through whatever happens to your adult child thus going down the hole with him if he chooses to do so. This usually involves not paying attention to your other loved ones who deserve you more than him, but difficult children take up all our oxygen if we choose to overindulge in them. Since you have no control over an adult child, his emotions will be yours. If he is doing drugs, in jail due to his bad decisions, living on the streets because of his refusal to conform even enough to get by in society, you can stay in bed all day every day and cry. Or you can go about life, but never really enjoy it because your adult child is doing poorly. Many people do this. It is a decision they make. Some parents think they can not have a good life if their child is struggling, even though the child is now an adult and it is due to the adult child's poor choices.
2. You have the option of maybe going to twelve step meetings or a private therapist or both and learn how to detach from your adult child's drama with caring, but with your eye on building a happy life of your own....realizing that your other loved ones and friends would like your happiness and company and that living one day at a time is more helpful to you than angsting over something you have no control over. Many of us have built good, fulfilling lives this way as we focus on ourselves and our loved ones who are able to have healthy relationships with us. As we detach, we learn to listen without the extreme emotion we once had. We learn when it is too much to talk to a difficult child and we set boundaries that are good for us. We start to laugh again.
The choices are very personal ones. Some people are 80 years old and their 60 year old alcoholic son who abuses them and never worked and dumped his wife and dodged child support and spent time in jail is STILL living with that poor eighty year old woman and maybe even shoving her around. But that was the way she decided to live her life.
Most of us here have chosen to move on and enjoy our lives in spite of having dysfunctional adult children. You have to make your own decision though. If you'd like to try to move on, the first thing I'd do is buy the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beatty and then I'd sit in on an Al-Anon or Nar-Anon meeting. There are great resources there for learning how to move on when a loved one is in a bad place. Helped lots of us tons. Therapy too.
Ca Mom Losing Hope
Member
What if the real problem is that by not showing you love and honor yourself, you child will continue to be dysfunctional and you could lose them?
It is true that you cannot truly fully love anyone or anything if you do not love yourself. How can you show love if you do not know joy or respect for yourself. They see us as weak, easy targets, in a hard harsh world of decisions, choices and consequences that we are not allowing them to make and feel for themselves. How will they ever get better if they don't know what real life is like, the decisions, the choices and the consequences?
CA Mom
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
We can lose them (in many contexts) whether we love ourselves or not. Our goal in loving ourselves should not be about keeping them around because we can only control us, not them.
There is no simple answer. Some of our kids get better. Some stay the same. Some get worse. We are almost all attempting to move on though. THAT we can control...the goodness of our own lives. I do agree that we need to let our grown kids face the consequences of their chosen lifestyles and then, if they seem to like alternative or strange or even dangerous lifestyles, learn to accept their choices. What else can we do?
It can be very confusing!
There is no simple answer. Some of our kids get better. Some stay the same. Some get worse. We are almost all attempting to move on though. THAT we can control...the goodness of our own lives. I do agree that we need to let our grown kids face the consequences of their chosen lifestyles and then, if they seem to like alternative or strange or even dangerous lifestyles, learn to accept their choices. What else can we do?
It can be very confusing!
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BusynMember
Well-Known Member
aud, no problem. I love to write and this doesn't really take up much time for me.
If he is mentally ill, I would go to Families or Emotions Anonymous or maybe NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill). They have some good stuff for the people who love somebody with mental health issues. You should have a NAMI somewhere near you. We do and we don't live near any big city...
Hugs and good luck. You can make a good life for yourself. It takes time and effort and is NOT EASY TO LEARN HOW TO FOCUS ON OURSELVES, but you do have us and we are always here on call 24/7. If you feel overwhelmed even at 4am, you can post here. You never know if somebody else is awake and it's a good venting place and you know you'll at least get responses in the morning We enjoy having you here.
If he is mentally ill, I would go to Families or Emotions Anonymous or maybe NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill). They have some good stuff for the people who love somebody with mental health issues. You should have a NAMI somewhere near you. We do and we don't live near any big city...
Hugs and good luck. You can make a good life for yourself. It takes time and effort and is NOT EASY TO LEARN HOW TO FOCUS ON OURSELVES, but you do have us and we are always here on call 24/7. If you feel overwhelmed even at 4am, you can post here. You never know if somebody else is awake and it's a good venting place and you know you'll at least get responses in the morning
We enjoy having you here.
