Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Littleboylost, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    It has been a emotionally and physically exhausting time.
    We have son at home. We are in limbo. We know he can not stop using on his own and are waiting for a rehab bed.
    Today I am taking him to the dentist, trying to get him to enroll in 2 courses at school, and to his bail meeting. Tomorrow it's back to court and then to out patient rehab and assessment for long term rehab intake.

    Friday he was psychotic and in a frenzy. He did calm down. He left and did not return until Sunday evening. Left Monday came back late yesterday and has been sleeping ever since.
    I want this whole process to be done and behind us.
    Waiting is horrid simply horrid. We can't help him Out patient can't help him.
    We had a 2 hour therapy session yesterday (me and husband). It was good but sooo draining.
    It is the long weekend and we would love to go away but of course we can't because of Difficult Child.
  2. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    So sorry LBL. We are on this journey with you.

    You want to fast forward your life. I have been there too. I even would fast forward now to a time where our son is sober and happy and has a future. I'd give anything for that place in time.

    It's so hard to "exist" during times like this. I think that is all we do is exist. I remember not knowing which way to turn and just wanting it to be over. You do have a plan in place and are literally doing everything you possibly can to keep him safe and keep your sanity.

    Give yourself a big pat on the back!
  3. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    Hi LBL,

    Sorry to be so blunt and possibly to sound rude. I do not mean to, but I want to ask the question as gently as possible:

    Why are you still allowing him to live in your home when he has violated the conditions you set for him to be there?
  4. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    There are physicians in private practice that supervise withdrawal. They are called addiction specialists, I believe. Yes. He needs medical supervision. But that can happen now. It may be that you will be required to okay it with craft.

    Think about it. There is no resident physician at a psychiatric hospital 24.

    I worked at prisons in psychiatry many years. 95 percent of prisoners went through withdrawal with minimal supervision. I am not recommending this. Believe me.

    Ok. I realize your son is not motivated to stop. And he needs containment to be successful. But would it not benefit you to talk to such a physician who will associates to address compliance, psychiatric-education, counseling.

    But you do have options. You do not have to sit here with him you guys tied up and bound as hostages in your own lives. Letting him and the authorities (who are idiots in my view) call the shots and set the terms.

    You have chosen this limbo as your and his best shot. Sometimes this is all we have. Our commitment to endure and persevere what we have chosen. Until we make another choice.

    I am writing here not to tell you what to do. I do not know. But to express my own frustration. About my own life. He is re-offending and re-offending. How is this helping our son? Let alone us.. The terms of this craft business seem to sanction his continued risk and how it abuses you.

    I believe that is what culturanta is speaking to. Craft sounded good when I read about it.


    But how can this be good? This reality you are living? How is this benefiting your child and keeping him safe?

    How does his dropping in and out of your house in a psychotic stupor help him? I do not see how this is not sanctioning this lifestyle.

    I have grappled and failed with similar circumstances. And keep wanting to do the same thing. I am nobody to speak.

    But it seems like you are in a vice powered by your son and the system. I would call a physician who is an addiction specialist to monitor withdrawal. At least I hope I would. I would try to not let that precious month of parental control pass. Then you will have no control. It gets worse.

    There is big big money in these programs like craft. I will not say more.

    What can I write? You are living a nightmare with him. Can it be stepped out of? Many parents here say yes. I have not yet found a way. I feel so bad you are suffering. It is so so hard.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  5. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    The op lives in Canada. There are long waits to get treatment for drug/mental health services.

    I believe it is bringing and doing drugs in the house that would be a violation of home agreement. They are waiting on a rehab bed.

    Everyones approach in handling their childs situation is dependent on where they find themselves on this horrifying journey.
  6. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Hi Culturana;

    That is a very good question. Last week when we returned from the Cottage vacation (at which time our son was not residing with us for breaking the rules), he got arrested again. This time high on street Xanax (bad bad junk know to be laced with Fentanyl), and arrested for possession of stolen property obtained by crime. He begged us to come home all the usual promises. I am utterly shocked that they released him (to a family friend not us, we would. It have picked him up). Nor was his bail bond revoked by the youth society which holds his bond. He skipped a bail check in appointment that week as well.

    We met with him and said if he consented to long term rehab we would let him come home until a bed is available.

    We can't stop him from doing drugs, he can't stop doing drugs. He has conduct disorder and a substance abuse problem. He signed the consent his application has been submitted to a long term rehab for youth. His medical evaluation for rehab is tomorrow after his appearance in court.

    We told him to respect the house rules and not to bring drugs or alcohol into the house. We will continue to drug test him to prove he is still taking drugs, although he lies and says he is clean. He still has to go to bail check in, register for school and to rehab twice a week.

    He had a huge outburst on Friday and left home and did not come back until Sunday. Left again Monday came back yesterday afternoon. He text to let us know he was ok and staying with a friend.

    We are keeping him at home until his rehab bed is available, if he is respectful of the rules we ask him to abide by, which are not a lot.

    We told him if he does not stay and complete the program as reccomended (a minimum of 6 months) he can not come home. If he is successful we can talk about having him return home.

    His out patient rehab worker, one of the police officers involved with my son and his bail officer have approached the crown, they have asked the crown to address the youth court and have a request to expedite a bed placement for our son. This took place some time today.

    Clearly not an ideal situation. If he does not abide by our rules he knows it is the shelter or the streets.

    He does abide, but it is a highly volatile situation. It is not sustainable for a long period.

    We were informed that it will take 1-4 months for a bed.

    He needs to detox and we can't do that. He will need in patient care for that. His program will have a 3 week detox and zero communication process. We hope to God he becomes more reasonable when he is off the drugs.

    The down side is yes he did consent, but he can sign himself out at any time. If he signs himself out he will not come home!

    It is a very stressful time. He is very challenging and we are not engaging him, we are not giving him anything more than food and a roof over his head and support to get to his meetings, and court. Court is 30KM away and there is no real easy way to commute there. He did have to get himself to court when he was couch surfing. His rehab counsellor gave him a ride and she told him it was a one time deal. The only other way is a 3 hour commuter train and bus ride. Not ideal. The youth association will provide cupons for public transit for him.

    He has yet to get his legal aid card and tomoorws court date will be another adjournment. Waste of collosal time. But the process is the process.

    He is in a situation now to make his choices. Rehab and a positive path to recovery for both the CD and the substance abuse. Or living in the streets or a shelter, and facing his court challenges by himself. This would end up in a slow agonizing life with an early death, jail, or the realization that he does need rehab.

    By the time this all unfolds, he will have turned 18. Once he is no longer a youth. There will be no reason not to put him in jail. He has only spent 4 days in an open custody unit for youth. They just won't lock up youth here in Canada. He will have a very hard time in jail.

    We are doing everything in our power to get him the help that he needs. Which is not easy given the way our system operates. We do not have $45,000.00 to spend on private rehab. And although we have excellent 3rd party insurance, they just don't cover rehab here in Canada as they do in the US.

    We have his name in for a bed in a co pay rehab. But the wait for a bed there is a year or longer. We have been waiting for 6 months.

    If he fails Rehab one. Gets sentenced he can ask the courts to place him in rehab instead of jail. The courts here are very reluctant to do this, especially for adults. Claiming they can access rehab in the prison system. It is unfortunate but that is our system. But if they will do this and the timing by chance is good we will have a back up bed in the copay rehab. This is something we can afford.

    It is not ideal but it is what it is and we feel our son being 17 soon to be 18 deserves a fighting chance. We are doing all we can do to help him without enabling him.
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  7. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Its been a long day. Getting help for your child would not be this hard.
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  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    While I wish him the best, maybe rethink letting him come home fresh out of a six month rehab, which doesnt sound very long to me. A step down, sober living would be better.

    Addicts can be clean while in a monitored environment. Many are. But the real test is once they are out. If it were me, I would pretty much not want him back. He will be at high risk to use again, especially if he has no step down living situation. Give him six months after being in rehab if not longer.

    Of course it is up to you, but guard your heart. Rehabs are a safety zone. Making it clean through rehab doesnt mean that the person can or wants to stay sober once he is back in the world again. The urge to use is still there.

    I have watched many here rush to declare victory after rehab only to face devestation after a relapse. Go slow emotionally!!! Dont expect too much after rehab because it is so different once they are "free." If your son is using fentynal, i was given that after a serious car accident. I have no memory of anything for weeks, until I was taken off of it. Hated it. That is a seriously mind zapping drug.

    I have no idea how to treat CD, but that is never fun to live with. That means he still wont follow societal rules. You need peace in your home and he is not a peaceful, compliant young man.
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    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  9. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    My dear dear Copa you speak the truth in every word. I am on my phone and my select quote won't work.

    Please see my rather lengthy response to Culturana.

    Re choosing LIMBO. Yes we have chosen this, for the sake of trying one last ditch effor to get our son the help he needs.

    Re the detox and psychiatric. We took my son into the hospital, and have called 911 psychiatric crisis 5 times. Each time we have called they leave him and say he is fine. He ODd on street Xanax and amphetamines in early June. They had him strapped down and he was violent and incohearant. They wanted to discharge him. We said no way detox. They put him in a bed and let him sign himself out. We have him on a waiting list for an outpatient psychiatric/drug evaluation, the wait for a youth psychiatric/drug detox evaluation is 9-12 months; and he does not qualify for an adult assessment until after his birthday.

    We know this situation is far from ideal and our system is so so broken. In my humble opinion this boy needs to be mandated to in patient treatment with no ability to sign himself out. That is just not the reality we are in.

    My husband and I have increased our time in therapy and we are focused on my husband being able to stick with boundaries that we set; he is more challenged with this than I am. We are prepared to let AS go, and this time there will be no return. He he is young but young or not enabling him long term is not the answer.

    He will know how to seek help and he will need to do it on his own. We will detach with love. No money, no home, no food. He knows where the shelter is, he knows who to access for social assistance, he knows where the food bank is. My husband will need to be strong enough to turn away if he shows up cold and begging. As will I.

    He will have to sort court out on his own. and he will be facing jail time with his set of second offenses. He will do this time in an adult jail.

    If he sticks with the long term rehab plan. He is most likely to get a reduced sentence, no jail time and probation.

    On a final note our government has invested 222 million into funding care for the Opiod crisis. There was a study released that indicates the group of people most needing rehab and psychiatric care are the group 16-25. The study that included multiple provinces also indicated that this is the group that need Car the most.

    So much for 222 Million. If the youth act is not altered to indicate that you can place your child in to care against their will between the ages of 16-18, this investment won't change a thing for people like me or my son.
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  10. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    We are looking into this option for him as well SWOT sober living is not as prevalent here as it is in the states. Regardless we are trying to locate options.

    The rehab is min 6 months. Many who make it through with mixed disorders stay a year or longer. They have school there as well so he could finish his high school.

    There is after care provided by the Rehab program and I am not certain what it entails. We will find out more once we have him in the program.

    Frankly with the way he is at the moment I don't see this stint in Rehab working for him at all. But at least we can rest on the fact that we did absolutely everything we possibly could have for this lost boy of ours.

    I can't believe the strength and courage I have been able to gain over the past 2 months. It has been mostly through the wisdom of people on this site that made me realize what we are doing (and attempting to do) is the right thing to do.

    We are so judged by people because we have put him out on the streets a few times already. People also judge because we had him arrested. People also say awful things like apples grow apple trees. What ever that is supposed to mean. Yes my family has a history of addiction but really I say shake any family tree and a few skeletons are bound to fall out.

    Thank you for your wisdom. I am so very grateful.
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  11. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Should not would
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Keep your nose to the ground and dont ask others for advice. Dont tell people who never lived this way what you have to do. Its like asking a tone deaf person to sing the opera. They dont get it. They cant.
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  13. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Also. In Canada private rehab is allowed but private practice is not allowed in psychiatry. Which is why you can't get in to see one until your dead!
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Ok. I will ask.

    Why cant a psychiatrist be in private practice? Why dont the citizens have the choice?
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  15. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    I hear you. Our town is not that big and my kid was selling his high school. Advertising on social media (idiot). Parents know. He hangs out looking very grubby selling loosies to keep himself in cigarette money. His GFs parents ....ugh...blame my son....she was broken long before he came along.....they were caught hopping cars and stealing 2 blocks away from where she lives and it was 4 in the morning. We had put him out, what was her reason for being out??? His choices his consequences. He could have gone to a shelter or admitted himself into detox in the hospitals. He doesn't think he has a problem because he doesn't stick a needle in his arm.

    My circle has become very small. I am ok with that. And I was graced by stumbling upon this site one teary sleepless night. I wish I had have found it 3 years ago.

    Many hugs....your words often sound like what my mom would say to me.
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  16. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    My apologies, I thought son had violated house rules.

    God bless you and your family, I will pray for a positive outcome.
  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    This story is heartbreaking.

    You have turned into a superhero before my very eyes. You are incredible

    I am more like your husband, I think. I so so feel for him. And you. This goes without saying.

    I will say something juvenile here
    I always thought Canada was highly evolved and advanced. Humane
    I am very angry at Canada. You and your child deserve so much more. My state has for decades used prisons to warehouse
    it's poor, mentally ill and addicted

    It sounds like Canada is on the same plan. Nobody could be doing more or doing better. Than you.

    Sometimes the worst thing does not happen.

    I believe in your son. Conduct disorder is a nothing diagnosis. It is a place holder until they grow up and decide their course.

    Did you read the nightingale?

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  18. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    There is no need for apology. And sadly Canada is very lacking in its ability to manage and particularly with the youth. I have added a link to a recent study. The On government has just announce a 222 million dollar infusion into aid for the opioid crisis. Not of that will help the youth 16-18 if they can discharge themselves from care.

    I am pretty mad at Canada right now too!

    'We see a lot of people who are struggling': Youth mental health hard to access, multi-province study says

    I hope but have no expectations.

    I have The Nightingale on my nook. It is next up to read after 2 books I have on the go.
  19. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Thanks C....I attended a Naranon meeting tonight. Refueling self care.
  20. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Socialized not for profit medicine legislates access to care and equality for all. I like the Australian system. If you can. Pay pay and the money finds the entire health care system. And all there doctors have to put a % of time into the social access system.