My son relapsed....

[Kathy813]

One more thing . . . my daughter stole from us repeatedly. One day I realized that my tennis bracelet and some rings had disappeared. I found some of the rings in my daughter's room but still don't know what happened to the rest.

She swears that she didn't take them . . . even to this day when she has been very forthcoming about other parts of her drug use. All I can think is that it was a blackout and she doesn't remember what she did with them.

It is one of those things I will always wonder about but I decided I had to put it behind me or it would eat me up.

~Kathy

 

[RN0441]

Kathy:
Thank you for your posts. We all do the best we can. We wanted to switch the car over to his name but the insurance would have been astronomical - even for liability - so that was the reason we did not do it initially. Hopefully down the road we can switch it or sell the car. At this point who knows what will happen. It's up to him.

SWOT:
You are very fortunate that you did not have anything stolen from you. My son never stole any of my jewelry thankfully. He stole his grandmother's rings and some money out of our safe and sold his PS3 and some of his other things over the years - similar to many addict's behavior.

Honestly if he'd take his recovery seriously I wouldn't give any of it another thought. We just want him to move forward.

 

[BusynMember]

RN, she did take money out of my purse...$20 at a time and I'd count my money and think I was losing my mind...lol.

My daughter had a job and worked a lot after school (when she even wrnt yo school). Suspect most of her salary went to drugs. Plus we didnt have expensive heirlooms in our home and she wouldn't steal from Sonic who had lots of game systems.

Even on drugs, she had a conscience of sorts.

But, trust me. finding out later that she went into my purse and stole even small amounts of money was hard. We lived paycheck to paycheck snd even $20 was very necessary, and she knew it. Im well over it...she would never do that now. Drugs causes much heartache.

 

[RN0441]

The rings weren't expensive but had sentimental value for my husband naturally. Husband's sister was just talking about them a few weeks ago - right after we found they had been missing - about what my husband was going to do with them - give them to oldest son etc..... Luckily he changed the subject. We do not want any of his siblings to know about the rings. None of their business and they are difficult enough to deal with! They aren't the nurturing, compassionate type.

 

[Copabanana]

Then we think of down the road, when he is sober and would like him to have the car to get to school or a job.

I believe the insurance rates go down at 26.

Let me try to convey my thinking here. The concept is subtle and hard to put into words. I know about this hook because I do it.

The above statement by you demonstrates continuing attachment to the idea that your thinking about and doing stuff can contribute to his ideal future. With this you show attachment to outcomes that are fully under his control and responsibility. Of course this is natural and normal that parents want things for their children.

The question is: Is it good for you or him for you to hold onto this wanting and planning for him and for his future? Because this will trip you up. And knowing that you are taking responsibility for even this small thing may trip him up and fuel his omnipotence and the sense he is not responsible.

There is a letting go I needed to do (and still do) of any control or indeed wanting for him for his future. I am absolutely horrible at this. Because I am really afraid for when I die, that he will not be able to take care of the property I leave him or himself. I very much am attached to, and take responsible for this deficiency. I am wrong.

Honestly if he'd take his recovery seriously I wouldn't give any of it another thought.

I disagree with this. I would guess that he knows this on some level. That everything will be forgiven. Why should it be?

He is culpable. In any other situation this might have been considered burglary or petty theft or even grand theft. At the very least, it is as assault on your trust and your husband's heart. And to the memory of his mother. Why would you forget this?

If it were me I would hold onto this--not let it go--because it is your protection. Against anything else he may do--so that you will protect yourself in the future--and against your going to far in the direction of taking responsibility for covering for him.

He knows this about you and he counts on it. I guarantee it. This is what has to change.

My son is really no angel--still--we have to watch ourselves every second of the day or he will overstep. The thing that began to change everything, little by little, is when he knew in his heart that there was no room for him in mine.

My son had to experience the rejection of people he had known more than half his life--whose hearts for him turned to ice--before he began to feel the pain of what he did. He cites that as a turning point for him.

I asked him yesterday: Why are you here with us? I am not being sarcastic. I want to know. We are making it hard for you. What are you getting out of it--besides a comfortable place to stay? You could find other similar places without the strings.

This was his answer: It really affected me when E didn't want to have anything to do with me. And you. You used to throw me out 6 months if I did anything at all. I realized I need to learn to live in a family to be part of a family. I want to learn. I stay here because I want to belong to people.

I am so cynical now, a part of me, that I did not fully believe him and went to ask M. Who said, believe him. There is no other answer that makes sense.

RN. Maybe your son is different and maybe you are too. I have a kind heart too. I loved my son 100 times more than myself. I was wrong. That was wrong for him. As long as they know we love them like that, they do not need to learn to love themselves like that.

And as long as we love them more than we love ourselves, we enable them. Yes I did. I am learning to love myself first.

 

[RN0441]

Copa

I do get what you are saying. But what about the part that we are supposed to let them know we love and support them?

I have barely talked to him since his relapse.

Sometimes I really feel like it would be better for ME if I never talked to him again. In fact I know it would.

Maybe we should not let it all go. If he were truly working on his sobriety I would think it would be best to do that but maybe you are on to something.

 

[Copabanana]

I do get what you are saying.

RN. I just edited the top part of the post where I fessed up that I am the biggest offender in this. Please read it so that I do not feel that I am taking some position that I do anything correctly.

OMG. About loving and supporting them. If they get anything at all, they know that they are our moon and stars, and universe. That is the problem. Somehow they have lost the idea that they are responsible, and need to be responsible. They believe it is us. It will not hurt your son to for a time to feel he is alone. That is not the same thing as being alone. You will always be there until you die.

Our sons need to start living as if they are alone, and that their choices have absolute ramifications. He is no longer just your son. He is a man in the world. Do you want your son to operate through life like somebody's son, or do you want him to take his place as a man?

From what you write about your husband, I very much get the sense that he is a man. A man who takes responsibility onto his own shoulders, and who can stand alone apart from his mother. Do you want this for your son?

Your son is young, still, but he has been making very adult choices--for which he has not wanted to or fully taken adult responsibilities. That is in part why I felt horrified for you about the rings. That is a crime that has landed many, many people in prison. Of course in their cases there was a pattern of misconduct, but look at your son? Is there not a pattern there, too?

Is it really helping him that you see him first as your beloved son, rather than a culpable, responsible adult who is doing very very wrong things. And he is not the only victim. He is victimizing others.
These things are not just accidents. It is not the problem of the drugs. You cannot separate out the drugs. The drugs have not jumped into him. He decided. These are his actions. He is responsible. Make him responsible.

Until you do so, I fear you may enable him. And that is not good for him.

All of this I write knowing that I am the worst offender. That is how I know.

 

[Hopingforthe best]

I do get what you are saying. But what about the part that we are supposed to let them know we love and support them?

I have barely talked to him since his relapse.

Sometimes I really feel like it would be better for ME if I never talked to him again. In fact I know it would.

Maybe we should not let it all go. If he were truly working on his sobriety I would think it would be best to do that but maybe you are on to something.

RN, i have been struggling with this for a long time not knowing what is the right thing to do. For example when i dropped my son to go to detox, i told him not to call me and when he didn't i started doubting myself and wondering whether it was right to abandon him like that if he was trying. I still don't know whether i what i am doing will help him but i have gotten to a point of being extremely tired of dealing with his addiction.

This is hard but do what you feel is right for your situation. If you want to support him when he is working in his sobriety, don't feel bad about it. Hugs to you and stay strong.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

I couldnt trust anyone who would steal anything as precious to me as heirlooms either, Copa and I dont even have any. I do have items that are precious to me. if my kids took them, for any reason, a part of me would feel betrayed for a very long time. Drugs would be no excuse. They are our children, but we cant let everything go just brcause of that.

I felt like you did when I read it. Child, I love you, I'd die for you, I would NEVER steal from you. It is beyond disrespectful that you could fo this to me...jmo.

You'd have to be either bat crazy, or stupid to trust somebody who would steal from you. It is an egregious betrayal of trust. And it isn't so much about WHAT is stolen, although heirlooms are irreplaceable, but the act that hurts so much. You introduce me to an addict who claims he is not a theif, and I will introduce you to a liar.

No, trust is earned. Every time it is betrayed, it is that much harder to get back. Which is how it should be. I stole from my aunt and uncle. Quite a bit. In multiple ways, even. Made up emergencies in order to get money, and actually taking they own. Now, a year later, my aunt is just now feeling comfortable enough to leave her lying around. She would have NEVER left out her laptop, or purse, or camera for the last few years. Not if she wanted it to be there the next morning. She is easing up, and I hate when my stealing is brought up, but that's because I am ashamed of myself for doing it. And NOT stealing from her isn't like some kind of achievement that deserves recognition or praise. We don't get praised for doing what we are obligated to do in the first place, such as not taking things from other people. Especially the people you love, and who love you more than anything in the world.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

I believe the insurance rates go down at 26.

Let me try to convey my thinking here. The concept is subtle and hard to put into words. I know about this hook because I do it.

The above statement by you demonstrates continuing attachment to the idea that your thinking about and doing stuff can contribute to his ideal future. With this you show attachment to outcomes that are fully under his control and responsibility. Of course this is natural and normal that parents want things for their children.

The question is: Is it good for you or him for you to hold onto this wanting and planning for him and for his future? Because this will trip you up. And knowing that you are taking responsibility for even this small thing may trip him up and fuel his omnipotence and the sense he is not responsible.

There is a letting go I needed to do (and still do) of any control or indeed wanting for him for his future. I am absolutely horrible at this. Because I am really afraid for when I die, that he will not be able to take care of the property I leave him or himself. I very much am attached to, and take responsible for this deficiency. I am wrong.I disagree with this. I would guess that he knows this on some level. That everything will be forgiven. Why should it be?

He is culpable. In any other situation this might have been considered burglary or petty theft or even grand theft. At the very least, it is as assault on your trust and your husband's heart. And to the memory of his mother. Why would you forget this?

If it were me I would hold onto this--not let it go--because it is your protection. Against anything else he may do--so that you will protect yourself in the future--and against your going to far in the direction of taking responsibility for covering for him.

He knows this about you and he counts on it. I guarantee it. This is what has to change.

My son is really no angel--still--we have to watch ourselves every second of the day or he will overstep. The thing that began to change everything, little by little, is when he knew in his heart that there was no room for him in mine.

My son had to experience the rejection of people he had known more than half his life--whose hearts for him turned to ice--before he began to feel the pain of what he did. He cites that as a turning point for him.

I asked him yesterday: Why are you here with us? I am not being sarcastic. I want to know. We are making it hard for you. What are you getting out of it--besides a comfortable place to stay? You could find other similar places without the strings.

This was his answer: It really affected me when E didn't want to have anything to do with me. And you. You used to throw me out 6 months if I did anything at all. I realized I need to learn to live in a family to be part of a family. I want to learn. I stay here because I want to belong to people.

I am so cynical now, a part of me, that I did not fully believe him and went to ask M. Who said, believe him. There is no other answer that makes sense.

RN. Maybe your son is different and maybe you are too. I have a kind heart too. I loved my son 100 times more than myself. I was wrong. That was wrong for him. As long as they know we love them like that, they do not need to learn to love themselves like that.

And as long as we love them more than we love ourselves, we enable them. Yes I did. I am learning to love myself first.

I agree. I think you have the right idea here. One good deed does not erase a bad deed. Not all deeds are equal in good or bad, but they are all equally permanent. The past cannot change. There is an important distinction between forgiveness, and forgetting. As much as we'd like to forget some of the more painful, and embarrassing moments, we really can't. If all bad deeds were just forgotten, what is learned from it? It is just asking for history to repeat itself.

Being all merciful and all just is impossible, since mercy is a suspension of justice. That isn't to say that it is always bad, or wrong, but even when you show mercy, the act isn't just erased from the time line. It STILL happened, and remembering why and how it happened is the only way to prevent a repeat. This is why we study history. Even the bad parts, ideally. Although some organizations are actively trying to remove America's history of slavery, I pray they don't succeed. Bad things and deeds happen. The most effective way to prevent them from happening again and again is NOT forgetting what made them so wrong in the first place.

 

[Copabanana]

even when you show mercy, the act isn't just erased from the time line. It STILL happened, and remembering why and how it happened is the only way to prevent a repeat. This is why we study history

On another thread I wrote about my mother and my sister. About how my sister utterly rejected my mother as she died. About the most horrifying thing that ever happened to me, that I ever was a part of.

And you know what? For nearly the first time in my life I miss my sister. She will not have anything to do with me either.

And I spent my life indifferent to her, rejecting her. Oh. I had all kinds of good reasons. I thought. She was passive aggressive (and now, aggressive.) She is mercenary and materialistic. We are not at all alike.

You see, I do not think I ever believed in mercy, in my own heart. Oh yes, if it did not cost me much. And now, I am able to see that the missing piece was in my own heart. I am humbled.

Watching this horror story play out in my life I was forced to accept my own part in it. And there is no way to atone for it. Because my mother is gone and my story is nearly played out.

I am seeing that the person I needed to hold responsible was myself. Nobody else. My sister all she was was human. I was the responsible one. I see that now.

The biggest challenges are when you can hold somebody else responsible. That you can, does not make it right. The most heroic stance sometimes, is to do the best you can, holding oneself responsible and nobody else. I wish I had done that. So many times, I did not. It is too late now. At least with my birth family. I was very, very wrong.

There is another thread right now where a mother is debating whether to accept the possibility of seeing her grandchild where she has been rejected and humiliated, both her and her husband--by her daughter and son in law. The mother is having a hard time with her anger at her daughter and her own pride of having been treated so shabbily by her. That is such a parental thing--to get mad when you see your children acting badly--especially towards oneself.

So, I am wondering now how this relates to what I counseled RN, and she replied to me asking about love. And I said to her sometimes love is not the most important thing. Responsibility is. Am I contradicting myself. I do not think so but I do not yet know why. I will think on it and get back to you in a couple of days. Because my work week starts tomorrow and it is grueling.

 

[RN0441]

Thank you for your responses.

I have not brought the bad things my son has done over the years up to him too much. Mainly because I don't want to relive it and it's all painful to me. Also because my husband gets SO angry and I don't see anger being helpful. I know he has a right to be angry though but I want him to be there for our son. I do need to rethink these things. I know that is probably not good. It makes him feel like we've accepted it or maybe he's gotten away with something and neither are my feelings.

I talked to a few good friends about this last night. They both say that we have done everything, everything for our son and that there is no way he does not know how much he is loved. I have to agree.

My son's new therapist called me yesterday and she says he has a sense of entitlement, does not feel he should be there etc. He actually told her that he does not want to be a peasant like her (WTF does that even mean??). The same things he was doing before the overdose. I don't understand why he is being this way. She said a big problem is that he is very young and immature. He's almost 21 but acts much younger at times. Agree. Maturity takes time. Time that he does not have. She said it's like she almost gets "in" but then he backs off. I have not talked to him for a few days but I do plan on talking to him soon about things he told me when he was in detox - about how this happened for a reason and now he sees he really does have a problem. Where did that person go? Now he is just angry. After that I am telling him he can talk to his dad for a while so I can have a mental break from it. We're so tired of waiting for the light bulb to go on.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Thank you for your responses.

I have not brought the bad things my son has done over the years up to him too much. Mainly because I don't want to relive it and it's all painful to me. Also because my husband gets SO angry and I don't see anger being helpful. I know he has a right to be angry though but I want him to be there for our son. I do need to rethink these things. I know that is probably not good. It makes him feel like we've accepted it or maybe he's gotten away with something and neither are my feelings.

I talked to a few good friends about this last night. They both say that we have done everything, everything for our son and that there is no way he does not know how much he is loved. I have to agree.

My son's new therapist called me yesterday and she says he has a sense of entitlement, does not feel he should be there etc. He actually told her that he does not want to be a peasant like her (WTF does that even mean??). The same things he was doing before the overdose. I don't understand why he is being this way. She said a big problem is that he is very young and immature. He's almost 21 but acts much younger at times. Agree. Maturity takes time. Time that he does not have. She said it's like she almost gets "in" but then he backs off. I have not talked to him for a few days but I do plan on talking to him soon about things he told me when he was in detox - about how this happened for a reason and now he sees he really does have a problem. Where did that person go? Now he is just angry. After that I am telling him he can talk to his dad for a while so I can have a mental break from it. We're so tired of waiting for the light bulb to go on.

Unfortunately, your son doesn't "get it". At all. He is still showing all the familiar ways of thought of an active addict. He may be sober, but he is not recovering. He belittles others to deflect. He is trying to fool himself more than anybody else. He seems to be quite successful at it, as all addicts are. If he can only convince others that his don't stank, he doesn't have to make any effort to improve himself. The drug addict in him is trying desperately to survive. We do this kind of thing subconsciously. Again, he is not special among junkies. In fact, he is quite boring. We all did and said everything he is doing and saying. Everybody's bottom is different, and he still hasn't discovered his. He may need to fall even further. It is when we are at our lowest points that we are open to the biggest change.

 

[rebelson]

Everybody's bottom is different, and he still hasn't discovered his. He may need to fall even further. It is when we are at our lowest points that we are open to the biggest change.

RN, we are camping on a beautiful lake so this won't be long.

But, based on your son's story thus far, it seems like he has a very, very long road ahead of him.

You already know what this means for us, moms. Not pretty.

My son also, still has a long road ahead of him.

It's exhausting, as you're finding out. None of us requested a lifetime membership to this "club".

 

[RN0441]

Rebelson - how wonderful. Enjoy your trip! I agree that he has a long road ahead of him - and so do we unfortunately.

Darkwing - I know. You're right. It's total insanity. I'm hoping that he is starting to get it that me and his dad are pulling away more than we ever have. We are at the end of our ropes with his behavior. His dad is going to visit him for his birthday and take him deep sea fishing and spend the night. I think he should still do that in spite of everything since it is his 21st birthday. Thoughts from anyone on this?

 

[BusynMember]

I wouldn't drink. I wouldnt fuss too much. 21 is really only different in ways that are bad for addicts...they can legally drink and gamble, both things that addicts shouldn't do. Other than that, its just another birthday.

I would not do anything based on guilt. That makes them think we are softening up. A simple birthday is enough.

Jmo

 

[RN0441]

I wouldn't drink. I wouldnt fuss too much. 21 is really only different in ways that are bad for addicts...they can legally drink and gamble, both things that addicts shouldn't do. The big deal about 21 is usually about drinking and gambling. Other than that, its just another birthday.

I would not do anything based on guilt. That makes them think we are softening up. A simple birthday is enough.

Jmo

There will be no drinking. Husband is staying 4 nights but will spend birthday with son and then an overnight and back to house he's at the following day. We fished with all our boys during a vacation when they were younger. It was an enjoyable day.

I don't think it's out of guilt but it's out of love. I think it would be good for them to spend some time together and he will have a good memory of his birthday with his dad. He hasn't seen family since April and we don't plan to see him again until November. My husband told him if he does anything STUPID between now and then he will not see him.

Sadly, with addicts you never know if this will be their last birthday.

 

[BusynMember]

Oh, RN, that even hurt me.

Of course good memories are never bad.

Hope it is lots of fun

 

[rebelson]

I'm thinking cancel the trip. Does his behavior deserve such a trip? I think it wld speak volumes to him. JMO.

Different story if this last "blip" hadn't happened and/or his attitude were more of humility & not that of spoiled entitlement....referring to his therapist as a peasant.[emoji51]

 

[RN0441]

There will be no drinking. Husband is staying 4 nights but will spend birthday with son and then an overnight and back to house he's at the following day. We fished with all our boys during a vacation when they were younger. It was an enjoyable day.

I don't think it's out of guilt but it's out of love. I think it would be good for them to spend some time together and he will have a good memory of his birthday with his dad. He hasn't seen family since April and we don't plan to see him again until November. My husband told him if he does anything STUPID between now and then he will not see him.

Sadly, with addicts you never know if this will be their last birthday.

If we didn't do this and something happened I could never live with that. And the rate my son is going with being in denial, who knows. We have struggled with what to do.